Talk: Projects/Moving Pages to In-Game Name

Clay Balls

The clay item is not named "Clay Balls". Shouldn't we therefore keep the names "Clay (Block)" and "Clay (Item)"? —kpreid 13:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I just reviewed the original discussion and nobody mentioned "Clay Balls", so I'm going to change the project instructions to reflect the in-game names. —kpreid 13:44, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Definition of "in-game name"?

What exactly is the definition of "in-game name"? Is it the tool tip you can see in the Creative inventory? Or is it some internally coded string? I assumed it was the tool tip, but this project changed Snow (Block) to Snow Block, which wouldn't make sense if that was the case (I think this project was originally created using names revealed by Too Many Items?). --Munin295 07:23, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm using the names in minecraft.jar/lang/en_US.lang, which are used for tool tips in inventory. There are a few issues, such as multiple blocks/items having the same name, but it's the only official set of names. -- Orthotope 05:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Issues to resolve

General issues

1. Are we going with sentence case or title case for title-case in-game names? (you used title case below) As I've mentioned elsewhere, I prefer that article names about in-game things match the spelling used in-game as closely as possible, so I vote for title case (except for anomalies like "Jack 'o' Lantern"). Sentence case makes in-text linking easier, but title case is precise to the term of art and the natural instinctive way to name articles. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

   The current convention is to use title case for articles about in-game things, and sentence case for everything else. Piped links or redirects aren't that hard to use. -- Orthotope 13:08, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

   I agree that that is the current convention, in the sense that it is what people are doing. It's just not what the Style Guide says (there's a discussion about not capitalizing in-game names in text, but the only discussion about article titles concludes for sentence case), and I want to make sure we're not unilaterally discarding a previous consensus. —Munin295 · · 15:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

2. Once this is finished, should we also tackle correcting the position labels for BlockSprite, etc.? —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

   We can review the sprite templates, but anything that breaks will be much harder to find. Proposed changes should go on the relevant template talk pages. -- Orthotope 13:08, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Chicken Egg

In-game name is 'Egg'. Egg redirects to Egg (disambiguation); alternatives are dragon, spawn, and monster eggs.

I think this is a sufficient number of disambs that we should keep Egg (disambiguation). Just move Chicken Egg to Egg and give it an {{about}} template. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Clay balls / Clay (Block)

In-game name of both is 'Clay'.

Where two things share the same name I suggest that the one the player is likely to see named first get preference for being titled with the correct name, and the other get a parenthetical disamb in its title (and they both get {{about}} templates to refer to each other or other disambs). So, since the player will see clay items named before seeing clay blocks named, we'd have 'Clay' and 'Clay (block)'. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

End Portal Frame

In-game name is 'End Portal'. End Portal currently describes the entire structure, not just the block that Eyes of Ender are inserted into (the portal itself is at Technical Blocks).

'End portal' and 'End portal (structure)'? —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Glowstone Block

In-game name is 'Glowstone'. Glowstone redirects to [[Glowstone (disambiguation)]]; only alternative is glowstone dust, so hatnotes could be used instead.

Sounds good. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Lapis Lazuli (dye)]]

In-game name is 'Lapis Lazuli'. Lapis Lazuli redirects to [[Lapis Lazuli (disambiguation)]]; alternatives are the ore and block. Hatnotes possible.

Sounds good. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Map (item)]]

In-game name is 'Map'. Map redirects to Map (disambiguation); only alternative is a link to The Overworld, not sure this is needed at all.

Yep, not needed. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Melon (block) / Melon Slice

In-game name of both is 'Melon'. Melon also redirects to Melon (disambiguation); alternatives are the seeds and glistering melons.

The player will see the slice get named first, so that would get preference: 'Melon' and 'Melon (block)'. Four disambs (Melon, Melon (block), Melon Seeds, and Glistering Melon) is enough to justify a separate disambiguation page. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

As said, melon ingame have multiple types and setting Melon Slice as primary is unnecessary. There are more than two actual pages regarding melons, (4). If we put Melon Slice as primary; why not Melon Block? I say leave Melon to redirect to a disambiguation page as people will still find what they are looking for. Extreme 16:05, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Why make people start at a disambiguation page, when you could start them at a page which has a good chance of actually being what they're looking for? —Munin295 · · 17:24, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Red Apple

In-game name is 'Apple'. Apple redirects to [[Apple (disambiguation)]]; only alternative is the golden apple, could use hatnotes instead.

Sounds good. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Redstone Dust

In-game name of the item is just 'Redstone'. A very ambiguous term, we probably need to keep this one a disambiguation page.

If 'Redstone' is the in-game name for the item (which it is), then there should be an article titled 'Redstone' which discusses the item. Disamb can be done with a 'Redstone (disambiguation)' page. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Redstone Wire

In-game name of the placed block is 'Redstone Dust', which conflicts with the current name of the item.

Not a problem if we change 'Redstone Dust' to 'Redstone', as we should. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Snow Block

In-game name of both the natural snowfall accumulation and manufactured block is 'Snow'.

Except in creative mode, the player will never see the accumulation block named, so 'Snow' for the solid block and 'Snow (cover)' for the accumulation?

Wheat Seeds

In-game name of the item is 'Seeds', and the name of the growing block is 'Crops'. Both are quite ambiguous, should be disambiguation pages.

As with Redstone, 'Seeds' should be an article about the item and 'Crops' should be an article about the block, and they can use {{about}} templates to link to 'Seeds (disambiguation)' and 'Crops (disambiguation)' respectively. —Munin295 · · 06:35, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Wooden Planks

In-game names are 'Oak Wood Planks', 'Birch Wood Planks', 'Jungle Wood Planks', and 'Spruce Wood Planks'. A page spelled 'Wood planks' currently exists as a redirect to Wooden Planks. —Munin295 · · 07:48, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

That one used to be correct; before the individual types of tree were named, all four were called 'Wooden Planks'. I'm not opposed to renaming it, though. -- Orthotope 09:53, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

If we commit to having articles reflect in-game names, it's possible we'll have to rename articles when in-game names get changed (and they will). As long as we work out a system, it should be okay. —Munin295 · · 15:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Should we request comments on some?

I don't think comments are necessary when the in-game name is obvious (be bold!), but where judgement calls about titles have been made -- primarily, "End Portal (structure)" and "Snow (cover)" -- I think we should post a note at the top of the article that a name change is being considered and start a discussion in the article's talk page, explain why the new name is being considered, and see if anyone has better ideas about what it should be called (I'm actually hoping someone will come up with something better than "Snow (cover)", even though that was my suggestion!). —Munin295 · · 08:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Name collisions

Another policy for name collisions that might make sense is to simply try to incorporate things into a single article (like the way stairs describes nine different blocks).

Clay

Describes both the block and the item.

Melon

Describes both the block and the item.

Snow

Describes both the solid block and the accumulation block.

Pros

• no need to think about what order the player might encounter the things (something which might change with new versions anyway)
• users don't have to remember the name we arbitrarily gave one of the things

Cons

• might have to describe very different things in the same article

Anything else?

Separate things can be split up in the same article the same way that was done in mushrooms and flowers (multiple {{Block}} or {{Item}} templates). —Munin295 · · 08:22, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Correcting links in User namespace?

Is it okay to correct links to moved pages in other users' pages and talk pages? i.e., pages you usually shouldn't edit? (as long as it's not a discussion about the link, where changing the link would break the discussion) —Munin295 · · 18:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I'd limit it to cases where the link is actually broken; as long as it points to a working redirect, it's not that important. -- Orthotope 20:59, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Okay, now I've tried updating some links, I find I also didn't feel comfortable updating links on translation pages. So, is it okay to mark a "Moved links" task as complete if we haven't moved links on User:, Talk:, and translation pages? —Munin295 · · 04:17, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

A lot of the translation pages seem un-maintained anyway; I would say don't update them manually, let a bot do it. The same could go for main space links, you only need to update them manually if they are broken or redirect to the wrong page. –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 04:27, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

We have bots?! What the heck am I doing! oO

Okay, so I should completely ignore all those tasks to move links? (not just in User:, etc., which is what I thought you meant above). Most of the links I just updated were left over from page moves over a week ago -- how fast do the bots work? —Munin295 · · 04:38, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

The bots are manual, they run whenever the owner turns it on (we don't have any 24/7 server side ones, if that's what you're thinking of). I'll run mine once all the pages have been moved. –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 07:59, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Okay, got it! Thanks. —Munin295 · · 09:08, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Ultradude: You may want to do a partial bot run even before all the pages are moved, specifically for Redstone Dust--> Redstone... since that's blocking another page move (and thas' a lotta links!). Maybe also for the similar problem with Snow. --Mental Mouse 16:51, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I already ran the bot for all moved links yesterday. But I skipped some unimportant pages like old outdated translation pages as well as mostly skipped talk pages. Some links were missed because I forgot about anonymous parameters in templates, so I'll just do those manually. –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 20:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Also, redstone wire's page move is being blocked by the shared image database (see the topic below), not incorrect links. That move won't happen until they are separated. –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 20:28, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Excellent, and thanks for all your work! --Mental Mouse 14:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Redstone Dust -> Redstone, Redstone Wire -> Redstone Dust

So, this seems like it might be helpful to do in two steps, with some clean-up in between:

1. Move Redstone Dust to Redstone
   • update links (by bot? might as well do all links in project?)
   • update unlinked terms in text (it'll be a lot easier to find instances of "Redstone Dust" that should be changed before doing the next move)
2. Move Redstone Wire to Redstone Dust
   • finish updating links in the project (by bot)
   • update unlinked terms in text

—Munin295 · · 09:02, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

End Portal

It seems to me that when someone is referring to an "End Portal", they'd mean the portal structure, and not the blocks that make it up. Thus, it seems better for us to have [[End Portal (structure)]] → End Portal and End Portal Frame → End Portal (block). You'd only ever see the in-game name in creative anyway. –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 09:35, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree (but conflicted). I think it should be policy to give naming precedence to things that actually use the name in-game (Creative only or not). But policies can have exceptions, and in this case, the exception you've described would make it easier for people to find the things they're looking for on the wiki, so the exception makes sense.

—Munin295 · · 17:31, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Well it's not about using in-game names just because, it's about having people able to easily find the pages they're looking for. For the most part, using in-game names happens to do just that. In this case, most people aren't going to want to look up the end portal block, and for those that do, they might spot the (block) page in the suggestions list so they still get straight to the page. –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 03:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Image name conflict

So we changed Snow to Snow (cover), then Snow Block to Snow. This is already a problem because all links referring to snow are now wrong, however this can easily be fixed by a bot by replacing snow to snow (cover) then snow block to snow, however the same can't be said for the images.

While it doesn't matter for things like the main article image, it does for the grid images, as the name is used as the link. We can't move, delete, upload over or basically do anything that changes the original image, because de and nl share our image database and doing the former two will break their images completely, and the latter will make their images look wrong (unless they update their page names at the same time as us). Originally we get around that by making redirects, but the snow image already exists, so there's no way to change snow block's image to snow.

I propose that we move Snow back to Snow Block for now (snow (cover) can stay though). Additionally, this same conflict will happen when we try to move Redstone Wire over Redstone Dust, in this case I propose we leave Redstone Wire, and only move Redstone Dust to Redstone.

Apparently, when Curse's global login system finally rolls around for us, we might be able to get our databases separated, in which case we will be able to freely move these images to our choosing and these moves can go ahead. –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 03:37, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I was wondering what was going to happen with sprite and grid links. And redirect Snow back to Snow (cover), so the Snow grid image links to what the image looks like?

—Munin295 · · 04:10, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Other way around. The link uses the name you type, as long as the name can make its way to an image it'll work, so Grid Snow (cover) redirects to Grid Snow. (which apparently it already does, guess the page was originally named Snow (cover) at some point) –ultradude25 ᐸ Talk
Contribs 04:18, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Saplings and Mushrooms

Should we move Saplings, Mushrooms and Huge Mushrooms to their in-game non-plural names? --mgr 13:07, 5 March 2013 (UTC)