Minecraft Wiki talk:Projects/Redirect cleanup

Organizing the redirects once we decide what to do about them
Can we apply categories to redirects? What if we had a few categories:
 * Category:English variant redirects,
 * Category:Lowercase redirects,
 * Category:Plural redirects,
 * Category:Feature redirects,
 * Category:Historical name redirects,
 * Category:Common name redirects,
 * and so on. Whatever categories we ultimately decide

It may facilitate the project -- though I'm also thinking of later benefits, such as:
 * There could be a maintenance page dedicated to uncategorized redirects (to decide whether they're good or not),
 * Several of those redirects, like 'english variant', 'historical name' or 'common name' redirects, should (probably?) not be used in wikilinks; wikilinks should use the in-game name. So if we had those in a category, or categories, those could be checked from time to time, in bulk, to see that they're not used in pages.  They would just be terms for the search bar.

Just thoughts. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 16:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Excellent idea, that will help to keep unnecessary redirects out after the project is done. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 23:15, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Support. I'm not entirely too sure about this, but Wikipedia uses templates on redirect pages (such as here), and it might help here as well, with the template adding the category to the redirect. - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 19:43, 8 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Here's a mockup template design: Template:UsefulRedirect - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 15:51, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Plural redirects
The style guide currently advises using link suffixes if possible to avoid needing extra redirects, but many plural redirects still exist.
 * Case for
 * Allows slightly more readable source text:  is easier to read than
 * Allows searching for plural terms


 * Case against
 * Isn't necessary for most links due to link suffixes
 * Is useless in search suggestions, making it more difficult to find pages

Feel free to add your own points for or against plural redirects.

I see 3 choices:
 * 1) Allow plural redirects
 * 2) Only allow plural redirects for plurals which aren't a suffix (e.g: "Wolves", "Blocks of Coal")
 * 3) Don't allow plural redirects


 * I vote for option 2. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 23:37, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm also in favor of #2, I feel it's in keeping with style guide so far, and I'm not sure people searching for a plural wouldn't just see the singular pop up, as they type. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 00:43, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I would also agree with #2, though I can see potential for confusion among new editors when making plural links. Basically, a lot of new users don't know about the plural link trick, so will likely try the formerly redirected version and see it as a redlink to create (which at best recreates a deleted redirect and at worst creates a duplicate article). – KnightMiner  · (t) 03:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I also like #2; however, less experienced wiki editors may not know that link suffixes work. They're likely to either attempt to link to the missing plural redirect, or use a piped link (e.g., ). The former isn't hard to fix, and the latter isn't technically wrong – a bot can check for those periodically. I'm fine with getting rid of unneeded redirects, but be aware that this does make the wiki a little less friendly for new and casual editors. -- Orthotopetalk 03:39, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * #2 pretty much seems like the obvious option. As such, that's the one I'm supporting. - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 19:43, 8 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I would only support use of redirects for actual in-game item / block names, no plurals. #3 - DSquirrelGM &#120035;&#120031;&#120018; 17:55, 17 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I am in support of #1, as I search for plural terms on a regular basis (it usually happens when I am searching for a list of monsters or status effects and forget to leave off the s.) I also have the habit of typing while looking at the keyboard, and rather quickly, so I wouldn't notice the singular option appearing most of the time. I know I am making assumptions here, but most of us in this thread are experienced users, and know not to search for plurals. However, a wiki should be for everyone, not just the experienced, and I'd imagine there are plenty of inexperienced users who also search for plurals, but never speak up (possibly because some of them don't have accounts yet.) If you look at the pros and cons of each side, the worst you're going to get with option #1 is extra use of storage space (I don't know how much of a problem that is here, but I would think it be a small percentage,) more redundant search suggestions, and a longer list of all pages on the wiki. The worst-case scenario for #3 is piped links, inconveniences for the inexperienced, and some of the redirect pages being created anyways, which could discourage new editors when the redirects are subsequently deleted. Option #2 would create a little bit of each issue, I'd imagine, while leaning more towards #3 because most English plurals are regular. The best-case scenario for each is that #1 is convenient, #3 cleans up search suggestions, and #2 is a bit of both. Sotuanduso (talk) 18:25, 29 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Support #2 – They are not needed. They do not have to be linked to, and it should redlink when you link to one. New editors can just use pipelinks if they don't know how to add link suffixes. It is also confusing when you search for, say, "Torch", and you get both "Torch" and "Torches" as options. Singular is the one used ingame and should be the only option when searching. – Nixinova Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Diamond_Pickaxe.png Grid_Map.png 20:22, 29 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Support #2 because it makes the most sense to me. If people are missing the singular suggestion when typing the plural in cases like Torches, offering lenient support for that seems silly to me. No offence Sotuanduso. But if a plural like wolves exists for an article it's best to keep that kind of redirect. Without one, I'm not sure whether mediawiki would understand it enough to provide the singular article title as a search match. Besides that I could go for either way. I would just strongly suggest the consistency of just one option applied everywhere. – [ Jack McKalling ] [ Grid Book.png Grid Book and Quill.png Grid Diamond Pickaxe.png ] 20:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Strongly Support #1. I know this is different than what most other users say, but if you look at this wikipedia article, it clearly states that redirects are cheap. Also, remember that pages are never fully deleted. Everybody seems to think that just because a page can be linked to one way, that means there should not be a plural redirect. However, while this may be true, plural redirects are very important to visitors of the Minecraft Wiki who search for the plural version of an article. Otherwise, readers may think there is no page on that specific topic because there's no plural redirect. The stuff about the singular options popping up while people typing is not really true either. The wiki takes a few seconds for it to register what someone is typing, so if someone is typing at a normal rate or even quite a bit slower, the wiki won't take the time to register it and it will look like the plural page doesn't even exist.


 * Another argument could be that the singular page will likely show up when searching. However, this is not true at all for pages that have been created in the last 3 months (I don't know the exact number, but I know it's at least 3 months). Let's take the page turtles for an example, a plural redirect currently pending deletion. If that page were to be deleted and a wiki reader were to search for "Turtles," no search results would come up, and that reader is unlikely to figure out that there is a page about turtles. To be honest, recently I searched for a plural page and it took me forever to figure out the actual page, and I have been a major wiki contributor for a long time and know the redirect policy. Another thing is, even if the correct article in the search results come up, that's extra time for the reader to have to search for it. This is not a lot of time, but it's so much easier just to go ahead and make plural redirects.


 * Because of these reasons, I strongly believe that existing plural redirects should be kept and new ones should be made. There really is no reason why there shouldn't be plural redirects, even if the redirects were completely useless (which it's FAR from that). It would make wiki readers have a much easier time getting to pages, and it would not hurt the wiki in any way at all. So, I strongly support number 1, but I know that this is very unlikely to be true because of all of the users that support number 2.--Orange Glazed Terracotta.png Madminecrafter12 Talk • Contributions 16:48, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Basically, this video summarizes it all:


 * -- Madminecrafter12 Orange Glazed Terracotta.png to meLight Blue Glazed Terracotta.png 00:54, 5 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I suppose it's useful for direct searching, but the main issue is it cluttering suggestions. What we really need is a way to filter plurals out of the search suggestions. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 04:32, 12 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Did you do something just now or recently? Plurals aren't showing in search suggestions anymore. – Sealbudsman talk | contribs 04:45, 12 April 2018 (UTC)


 * That's just search/suggestions being totally broken, which has been an issue for awhile. For example: Nautilus Shell doesn't show up at all, nor the Nautilus redirect. And you'll notice results that are returned are outdated (version shown is from 3 years ago, when it was last edited at the start of the year). –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 05:17, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Counterproductive project
Redirects may have links from other websites. It may be best if we keep the redirects. The BlobsPaper.png 04:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm quite happy to sacrifice ancient external links in order to make search suggestions actually usable, plus we can include a link to the real page in the deletion reason so any one that does end up there can still easily get to the right page, without it cluttering the search. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 04:17, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Seems like a decent idea. If the original author of the linking site has abandoned work on the site for a long enough time, it's probably too outdated to be reputable/trustworthy anyway, and up-to-date sites will be able to fix their links easily enough.- MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 08:33, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Adding on to this, redirects should never be used to support external links which are invalid in ANY case. Quite simply, there's no excuse for incorrect links on their part as the links are made. DSquirrelGM &#120035;&#120031;&#120018; 13:05, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Talk pages and user pages
Should we be able to edit talk page comments for the sole purpose of removing these redirects? It wouldn't change the functionality of the pages at all, so I don't see it as too much of a deal. - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 07:43, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

On a similar note, could user pages be edited for the same reason? It feels a bit rude to edit someone else's user page(s), but then again it's their responsibility to take care of it; as such, they should be responsible for patching up any broken links. Helping out by fixing these up doesn't seem to be way too bad, but I'm kind of on the fence. Should this too be an allowable movement? - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 10:11, 31 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I had a very similar discussion about template calls on the [//minecraft.gamepedia.com/Minecraft_Wiki_talk:Community_portal#Edit_other_people.27s_user_pages_for_maintenance_tasks.3F Community talk page]. As far as the editing of user pages goes, redirects can be treated the same way as template calls. The way I see it, the privateness of user pages should not supersede fixing maintenance issues, in case there is a lot of maintenance raised by these pages. The maintenance lists on special pages would clutter up, obstructing the mainstream.
 * I would recommended asking the owner of the user page first if they're active, and otherwise to leave the reason for your edit in the edit summary. – Jack McKalling (t • c • p) 19:57, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Banner redirects
I suspect that none of the 600+ banner redirects listed here are necessary. Maybe they were created because a template used to link to them, but currently the redirects are unused and don't appear to serve any purpose. - Sonicwave ( talk &#124; c )  03:37, 25 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I have mixed feelings about these pages. On one side, they are indeed the names of items, just like Blue Bed and Acacia Fence Gate are, and reworking the entire Crafting template/changing all the entries on all the pages would be a bit of a hassle. On the other hand I doubt people would be searching for specific banners and would probably just type banner instead into the search bar. I say keep for now. - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 12:16, 25 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I notice that the banner crafting usage template doesn't actually link to these redirects, they link directly to Banner (see below).
 * Is it true that these redirects aren't actually needed, due to some technique used in this template? If so, I definitely support removing the redirects.  Additionally, could this technique be reused across the board, so we could retire redirects like Blue Bed, Acacia Fence Gate, etc.?  Maybe, judicious use of what we already have in Module:Inventory_slot/Aliases could direct the crafting template to repoint 'Blue Bed' to 'Bed', and it wouldn't require the changing of any other pages?
 * The idea that just because it's the actual name of the item, therefore we should have a redirect to accommodate it – this doesn't feel very compelling when it comes to these color or wood-type "variant" items. I would rather we get rid of them.  It doesn't seem like it encourages good linking, and it is a source of search-result clutter. –  Sealbudsman talk/contr 16:23, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The idea that just because it's the actual name of the item, therefore we should have a redirect to accommodate it – this doesn't feel very compelling when it comes to these color or wood-type "variant" items. I would rather we get rid of them.  It doesn't seem like it encourages good linking, and it is a source of search-result clutter. –  Sealbudsman talk/contr 16:23, 25 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't know anything about Lua, but this change seems to have had something to do with it. - Sonicwave ( talk &#124; c )  23:10, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Ass
This redirect to "donkey" could be deleted, since although it's a "correct term" I can't really see anyone using it. - Sonicwave ( talk &#124; c )  03:45, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree that this should be deleted; the blank page should also obviously remain protected. Also by this logic we should have pages like "cock" that redirects to chicken, "bitch" that redirects to wolf, "pussy" redirecting to ocelot, etc. I don't see any circumstances where pages of this description would be used unless some 12 year old tries to get crafty. - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk)
 * Agree. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 16:24, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. ―HalfOfAKebab (talk, contribs) 22:10, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Pages that redirect to mods
I've seen a large amount of redirects that do not begin with "Mods/", but redirect to pages that do begin with "Mods/". Should these be allowed? - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 12:38, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Also, on an extremely similar topic, how about servers - would these be in violation of Rule #5 as well as being useless redirects? - MinecraftPhotos4U (talk) 12:39, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Could we please stop adding deletion templates to plural redirects?
"Work in Progress: Don't take action until details are worked out," are the very first words on this project page. However, people are continuously marking redirects for deletion, despite the fact that no final decision has been made. As you can see at, I very strongly oppose deleting them, but right now I'm not talking about my opinion - I'm talking for the whole MCW community. Could we please stop deleting them until we've actually come to a decision?-- Madminecrafter12 T • C 13:29, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, I'd be fine with removing all the deletion templates myself if necessary - the pending deletion categories consists of mostly plural redirects, so I could just look through that category.--Orange Glazed Terracotta.png Madminecrafter12 T • C 13:31, 22 March 2018 (UTC)


 * They were mostly . I've cleared all redirect deletion requests so the deletion category is actually usable again. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 04:30, 12 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Projects have no special authority over their topics and can confer none on their members. That "Work in Progress: Don't take action", being on the project page, is directed at the project members, not editors in general, and it has no authority in any case: It's a request, not an edict. All editors, even project members, are subject to the rules and guidelines unless there is consensus to ignore them, and for guidelines that consensus should have a broader scope of discussion than a single project. It is perfectly appropriate for editors to request deletions in conformance with the existing guidelines. Trying to prevent that is disruptive to the wiki in that it stymies normal maintenance. So, could we please stop adding redirects for simple plurals in violation of the current guidelines, and claiming it's justified by a project that hasn't even decided what it wants to do yet? What you're doing gives the impression you're trying to load the wiki with a fait accompli, so you can argue it'd be easier to change the guidelines than to undo the illicit work. – Auldrick (talk &middot; contribs) 21:10, 22 May 2018 (UTC)


 * So, basically what you're saying (if I'm understanding this correctly) is that the community has already decided that plural redirects should be deleted and that's what the policy is now. This is not really true, though. "Stop adding redirects for simple plurals in violation of the current guidelines" - I'm sorry but that's not accurate. As far as I can tell, the only discussion there's ever been on whether plural redirects should exist or not is on this page (please correct me if I'm wrong). Also, I don't see any kind of current policy or guideline that says that plural redirects should be deleted. About a month ago, information about the fact that plurals should be deleted was added to the style guide, with no discussion about actually adding it to the style guide, but this was actually reverted less than 2 weeks later by, with his exact words being, "There's been no consensus about plurals. The project page still literally says: TODO."


 * So basically, where I think you're going wrong is that this is in violation of the current guidelines. No - the PROJECT information was discussed long before this was added to the style guide (which I assume is what you mean by "policies and guidelines"), and it only remained on the style guide for a short time, before it was reverted for "no consensus," with the edit summary actually referencing the project page. I definitely don't think this would be a case of fait accompli. Also, I apologize if this sounds rude or anything (I don't mean for it to), but I just think in this case it's important to explain my reasoning clearly, which I hope you don't take as offensive.-- Madminecrafter12 Orange Glazed Terracotta.png to meLight Blue Glazed Terracotta.png 22:07, 22 May 2018 (UTC)


 * You're right, I was wrong about the guideline. Let me explain. I've been stewing about this since May 4, when reverted my edit requesting deletion of Pumpkins. Immediately after, he deleted the paragraph from the Style Guide, but I never saw that: Practicing due diligence, I had already researched the guidelines on redirects, so from my point of view, I "knew" that plural redirects were not allowed, and the way I interpreted Majr's edit summary ("Undo revision 1205646 by Auldrick (talk) was added without consensus") was that my edit lacked a required consensus. I realize now he was referring to the false guideline I cited in my edit summary, but at the time I thought he meant that this project sat in judgment of all edits done to redirects.
 * I then came upon this topic, which reinforced the impression that you were usurping control over edits to redirects, by contravening what I believed was in the style guide. I was frankly incensed, and was unable to express myself rationally and appropriately, so I left it alone until now. I realize now I was mistaken, and I'm sorry if some of my lingering ill temper showed. Please forgive me.
 * If there's a lesson to learn here, perhaps it's that we need a bit more oversight over the few guidelines we do have on this wiki. How is it that "official" pages like the Style Guide can go two weeks without a seriously improper edit being reverted? Does nobody watch such pages? But these are questions for a different project to address. – Auldrick (talk &middot; contribs) 01:30, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Reduce scope
Since search suggestions are broken anyway, perhaps we need to reduce the scope of this to just getting rid of uncontroversially useless redirects (fan names, old nonsense page names (disambig format)), and categorising existing redirects in order to make it easier to determine the usefulness of existing and future redirects (In other words: lets ignore plurals because there seems to be no clear consensus, and this project has been stalled for a few years because of it).

Then in a bright, utopian future where search suggestions actually work, we can discuss either getting rid of less useful redirects, or just find a way to hide them from being suggested. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 05:16, 4 May 2018 (UTC)