Talk:Mechanics/Redstone/Logic circuit

A human friendly way to think of the logic gates
A more human friendly way to think of the gates function is to imagine that every gate asks the input(s) a specific question based on how the gates are built, the resulting answer is the output and is always a yes/no (on/off) answer. Here are some examples:

(feel free to improve/extend the list, or use it in the article if it's good enough, or use it as you see fit) --Sebbes333 01:50, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I like this. I could see this in the introduction as sort of an alternate TOC. But I would put the question first, with the logic gate as the answer:
 * {| class="wikitable"

! Question ! Answered By
 * Is the input off?
 * NOT Gate
 * Are both inputs on?
 * AND Gate
 * Is either input off?
 * NAND Gate
 * Is either input on?
 * OR Gate
 * Are both inputs off?
 * NOR Gate
 * Are both inputs different?
 * XOR Gate
 * Are both inputs equal?
 * XNOR Gate
 * }
 * --Munin295 04:42, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Replace "both" with "all" and "either" with "any" to accommodate gates with 3+ inputs? --Munin295 04:45, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * XOR Gate
 * Are both inputs equal?
 * XNOR Gate
 * }
 * --Munin295 04:42, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Replace "both" with "all" and "either" with "any" to accommodate gates with 3+ inputs? --Munin295 04:45, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * --Munin295 04:42, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Replace "both" with "all" and "either" with "any" to accommodate gates with 3+ inputs? --Munin295 04:45, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I have been thinking about what kind of questions eg. a RSNOR latch and other circuits asks, but as of now I don't know.
 * Anny suggestions?
 * --Sebbes333 16:07, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * An RS NOR Latch asks "Has input S turned on more recently than input R?". A T Flip-Flop asks "Has input T turned on an odd number of times?". --Munin295 20:29, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing to contribute just now, but I wanted to say that I like this approach! Now I'm wondering about D latches and D flip-flops.... --Mental Mouse 22:31, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure yet, but you can read this and maybe have a suggestion? Redstone Circuits/Latches --Sebbes333 19:59, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Input redstone / tables
I would argue that the input redstone of XOR designs C, E and J shouldn't be counted (reducing the redstone count of them to 12, 10, and 7 respectively) as it isn't counted for the other designs. There are probably other cases in the rest of the gates, but I wasn't looking at those very closely. Though, on design J the necessity of those blocks of redstone can vary depending on how power is being routed in from previous gates.

I also made this table for resource cost, but I'm not certain if it would be useful enough to add to the article.

Total costs of each design, not counting regular structure blocks:

* Only if you use slabs of this type. Skyboy 08:15, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Munin's new schematics
For general information: I'm currently converting this page to the new SchematicGrid templates, working at User:Mental_Mouse/Sandbox/Logic Circuits. --Mental Mouse 21:02, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Needs to have a legend like the old page had. Not everyone will understand that the green wool is input, and pink is output.--Skarrd 13:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The redstone style guide recommends that the Schematic help template be added to the caption of the first schematic in an article, and to others if helpful. This adds a link to the Help:Schematic page.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 15:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That recommendation is actually a bit problematic, when most or all of the circuits are loaded from other files. LoadBox has a caption the link can go in (but that may not wrap well), but LoadFile isn't so hot for that (the link will be part of a header).  I've just added the link to Logic and Memory, but with slightly different formats.  I'm still tempted to go back to putting it in a msgbox. --Mental Mouse 21:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * For LoadPage, just add help links to the loaded schematics as usual (not to LoadPage's title parameter). Treat the loaded content as if were just a normal section that had been written in the article.
 * For LoadBox (and other places where schematics are grouped together), it may make sense to put a single link outside the captions in a place which is useful for all the loaded schematics.
 * My main objection to msgboxes is that people treat them like ads -- they ignore them. A help link is much more useful if it's right next to what you want help with. If that means every schematic (or group of schematics) should have a help link, that's okay.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Video
mcspotlights has created a video on this, is it needed on the article? Just thought that other videos by him are on other pages, so... yeah. Just a thought. –- (T) Numbermaniac (C) 01:49, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * A video on which? Logic circuits in general?  If so, it might go in the "See Also" section as a link or (if really useful) a collapsed video.  (At this point, only Curse's official videos should be directly embedded in pages, mostly because multiple embedded videos can stop a browser cold.)  It would help us decide, if you would provide the link to the video here. --Mental Mouse 11:10, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Is mcspotlights a Curse channel? Generally it should only be Curse staff (or admins) adding videos to articles, otherwise they risk being overrun by videos the way tutorials are.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 17:02, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, [//www.youtube.com/user/mcspotlights mcspotlights] does look like a Curse channel (is there a list somewhere?), and there is [//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMC7ckdBcf4 a video] which looks like a reasonable introduction to logic circuits (it may actually have been created for the logic gate tutorial, but it works here too). I've added it to the article.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 17:40, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Wait, lowercase operators? I don't think so.
Sorry, the uppercase operators are standard terminology, specifically meant to set them apart from common English.. The only places I've ever seen lower case used for the formal operators, was when making examples in English, or in a few programming languages that don't use symbols for them. --Mental Mouse 10:38, 13 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. However, my design goal is not consistency with computer science or anything, my design goal is to write articles that will allow 12-year-olds to learn how to use and build redstone circuits. If I see something that is hard to read, I'm going to play around with it to see if I can find something easier. My first attempts might not be perfect, but they'll get there.


 * I'll leave the operators ALLCAPS for now, but if I find myself having to write walls of caps like "A AND B EQUALS NOT (NOT A OR NOT B)", I'm going to start looking for something to make that easier to parse (and symbols like &#x2227; aren't a solution for typical 12 year olds).


 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 18:43, 13 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, 12 year olds are at the older edge of the perfect range to start learning the symbols, among other things. Think "Pokemon age" (formerly, sports statistics ;-) ) -- kids at 10-12 are primed to learn datasets of up to a few hundred items.  --Mental Mouse 21:34, 13 June 2013 (UTC)


 * They didn't come here to learn about logical operators, they came here to learn about redstone circuits. Let's write about redstone circuits and leave the math out unless it's necessary to understand the circuit.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 22:56, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Diagram Legend?
Could we possibly get a legend for all the diagrams, so it's easier to understand them? I keep getting confused. Specifically, what are the semi-transparent blocks with a dark square in the center in the XOR gate schematics? Thanks.

--66.189.247.115 19:12, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Every schematic has a blue question mark which links to Help:Schematic, and there's also a link to the help in the Redstone navbox at the bottom of the page, but maybe it could be improved. A transparent block indicates a block over something. Those dark red squares are "directionless" redstone dust (we tried making them circles but then they get confused with redstone torches). &mdash;munin &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 19:25, 28 September 2014 (UTC)