Talk:Biome/Archive 4

Improvement to the table and subpages
I did a few changes to some of the subpages (ex:Biome/Birch Forest) adding the table. The Table can be improved by adding the technical biomes that were omitted (ex:Mega Spruce Taiga Hills, Mesa Plateau F M, and Cold Taiga Hills) and adding Biome Colors like I did in the subpages. The Subpages should follow a uniform layout (What Can Be found in the Biome, Naturally spawned Blocks (found in the Mega Taiga subpage), Table, and History of the Biome.) --Delvin4519 (talk) 22:51, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Really the reason the subpages are in such bad condition is because they are leftover from a project that lacked support, as there is no reason to discuss the biomes separately when they are fully described here. – KnightMiner  (t·c) 00:42, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I also mentioned improvements to the main Biome table. At the moment the table Extreme Hills is separated from Extreme Hills +, Some technical Biomes are missing and replaced with Hell and The End. Biome colors (AMIDST) are missing. Some biomes here aren't in the Biomes achievement and some missing biomes are. The old Red Desert picture should go as the regular Mesa picture. Jungle M has 2 pictures and 1 of them will have to go for Jungle Hills.
 * Heres the list of biomes listed in the table in order, there are 57 biomes in game.
 * {| class="collapsible collapsed"

! List
 * 1) Frozen River
 * 2) Ice Plains
 * 3) Ice Plains Spikes
 * 4) Cold Beach
 * 5) Cold Taiga
 * 6) Cold Taiga M*
 * 7) Extreme Hills
 * 8) Extreme Hills M*
 * 9) Taiga
 * 10) Taiga M*
 * 11) Mega Taiga
 * 12) Mega Spruce Taiga*
 * 13) Extreme Hills+
 * 14) Extreme Hills+M*
 * 15) Stone Beach
 * 16) The End
 * 17) Plains
 * 18) Sunflower Plains*
 * 19) Forest
 * 20) Flower Forest
 * 21) Swampland
 * 22) Swampland M*
 * 23) River
 * 24) Beach
 * 25) Jungle
 * 26) Jungle M*
 * 27) Jungle Edge
 * 28) Jungle Edge M*
 * 29) Birch Forest
 * 30) Birch Forest M*
 * 31) Birch Forest Hills
 * 32) Birch Forest Hills M*
 * 33) Roof Forest
 * 34) Roof Forest M*
 * 35) Mushroom Island
 * 36) Mushroom Island Shore
 * 37) Desert
 * 38) Desert M*
 * 39) Savanna
 * 40) Savanna M*
 * 41) Mesa
 * 42) Mesa Bryce
 * 43) Plateau'
 * 44) Plateau M*'
 * 45) Hell
 * 46) Ocean
 * 47) Deep Ocean
 * 48) Hills'
 * }
 * Missing Biomes
 * Ice Mountains, Cold Taiga Hills, Taiga Hills, Mega Taiga Hills, Mega Spruce Taiga Hills*, Forest Hills, Jungle Hills, Desert Hills, Mesa Plateau F, Mesa Plateau F M*
 * {| class="collapsible collapsed"
 * Ice Mountains, Cold Taiga Hills, Taiga Hills, Mega Taiga Hills, Mega Spruce Taiga Hills*, Forest Hills, Jungle Hills, Desert Hills, Mesa Plateau F, Mesa Plateau F M*
 * {| class="collapsible collapsed"

! Better List:
 * 1) Frozen River
 * 2) Cold Beach
 * 3) Ice Plains
 * 4) Ice Mountains
 * 5) Ice Plains Spikes
 * 6) Cold Taiga
 * 7) Cold Taiga M*
 * 8) Cold Taiga Hills
 * 9) Taiga
 * 10) Taiga M*
 * 11) Taiga Hills
 * 12) Mega Taiga
 * 13) Mega Taiga Hills
 * 14) Mega Spruce Taiga*
 * 15) Mega Spruce Taiga Hills*
 * 16) Extreme Hills
 * 17) Extreme Hills M*
 * 18) Extreme Hills+
 * 19) Extreme Hills+M*
 * 20) Stone Beach
 * 21) The End
 * 22) Birch Forest
 * 23) Birch Forest M*
 * 24) Birch Forest Hills
 * 25) Birch Forest Hills M*
 * 26) Roof Forest
 * 27) Roof Forest M*
 * 28) Forest
 * 29) Flower Forest
 * 30) Forest Hills
 * 31) Plains
 * 32) Sunflower Plains*
 * 33) Swampland
 * 34) Swampland M*
 * 35) River
 * 36) Beach
 * 37) Mushroom Island
 * 38) Mushroom Island Shore
 * 39) Jungle
 * 40) Jungle M*
 * 41) Jungle Hills
 * 42) Jungle Edge
 * 43) Jungle Edge M*
 * 44) Desert
 * 45) Desert M*
 * 46) Desert Hills
 * 47) Savanna
 * 48) Savanna M*
 * 49) Savanna Plateau
 * 50) Savanna Plateau M*
 * 51) Mesa
 * 52) Mesa Bryce
 * 53) Mesa Plateau
 * 54) Mesa Plateau M*
 * 55) Mesa Plateau F
 * 56) Mesa Plateau F M*
 * 57) Hell
 * 58) Ocean
 * 59) Deep Ocean
 * }
 * --Delvin4519 (talk) 01:46, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * }
 * --Delvin4519 (talk) 01:46, 10 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I think the reason some technical biomes were removed is because there was no support in the code for them existing, it was simply two biomes crossing. Although you would have to ask about that.
 * I don't see anything against merging biomes variants, but since it would be a somewhat major change, I would suggest creating a draft as a subpage of your user page, then linking the page here for a discussion on the changes.
 * The Nether and the End are actual biomes, they just only generate in said dimensions
 * ADMIST is a external program not made by mojang, as such we do not cover it here, unless you mean in game foliage colors, in which case I don't see any problem with mentioning.
 * – KnightMiner  (t·c) 02:47, 10 January 2015 (UTC)


 * If you're talking about the ones listed on Template:Biomes, that's about as disused and unsupported as the rest of the biome subpages. The list at Biome is complete and correct. -- Orthotopetalk 19:12, 10 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I think frozen river and cold beach are technical biomes because frozen rivers are rivers running through snowy biomes and cold beaches generate between oceans and ice planes. However, I don't see why the variants of Mesa plateau are technical, so they should probably be readied unless there is a reason not to.71.35.109.25 16:46, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't see any reason to make a whole category for two biomes that are the same as another except by temperature, otherwise why is ice plains not a technical plains only icy? In this case, it is more like a variant of the river/beach applied based on location/temperature.
 * The mesa plateau is listed already, although it is merged with the savanna plateau. – KnightMiner  (t·c) 17:37, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You know, technically, all the snowy biomes are variants of warmer biomes, although most of the warmer variants have a different tree. Maybe this information should be included.
 * You are right and so is plateu M, but this leaves out Mesa Plateau F and mesa Plateau F M.71.35.109.25 18:00, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I am not sure about the Mesa Plateau F and F M, they may be required on the table.
 * Also, when replying to comments, leave replies to other comments below all existing replies to that comment and replies to replies. Never reply within someone else's comment. – KnightMiner  (t·c) 18:26, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This removes red desert and red beach. Maybe the Mesa section should say that red sand also generates near Mesas, creating deserts, rivers, beaches, and oceans. I don'get why gravel beaches are a technical biome. 71.35.109.25 18:00, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I have a draft ready. It here at User:Delvin4519/Biome. --Delvin4519 (talk) 01:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

First appearances
I think the charts should have a column for the version the biome was added in. It would tell this for PC, pocket edition, and console edition. For example, deed ocean would say "*PC:beta 1.8 *Pocket edition:alpha 0.9.0". I do not know the first appearance for console edition, but you can fill that in. If you have an account, you can add the new column.67.160.25.176 23:35, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I would advise you to use the history section instead. If we added a first version column, not only would it be redundant, but it would be complicated to perform, as many biomes have been added, changed, removed, then re-added. Also, the style guide requires all history information (except upcoming) to only be described in the history section. – KnightMiner  (t·c) 04:02, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Nether Biome
The Nether biome is missing temperature information. 108.216.30.138 20:58, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Biome Articles
Some of these biomes are so significant that they should probably have their own articles. 108.216.30.59 04:29, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Not really, when you can have a large section here or a stub article, a large section is better. Also, it would not make sense to give some biomes their own article, and keep other biomes on this page. – KnightMiner  (t·c) 04:45, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Cold Beach
There is a cold taiga biome in the background. We need another image. 108.216.28.22 17:13, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Videos
The video subpage has too many videos. These videos already appear in the article, and the page always reloads after opening the section. 108.216.28.22 19:15, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

M variants
What does the M mean?71.35.109.25 18:57, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Generally, most (not all) M biomes have more mountainous/hilly terrain than their base. "Mutant" is a better term than "Mountainous".
 * Savanna Plateau M are typically less tall than Savanna Plateau, for example.
 * Keybounce (talk) 16:10, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Keybounce (talk) 16:10, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Keybounce (talk) 16:10, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Incomplete


This file is missing some info and so does the info in the Mesa and Roofed forest section. The file is missing the Mega Taiga and the Mushroom biome info from y64 to y256. What grass and foliage color is the ocean, beach, cold beach, ice plains, cold taiga, stone beach. What is the grass and foliage color of the Mesa and Roof Forest both at y256. The section only gives it at y64. Section I mean the techical section. --Delvin4519 (talk) 12:09, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank-you for your feedback. The issues you pointed out have been noted and I will begin the process of updating the file. So far I have learned that the mushroom biome does indeed follow the palette, however the Mesa biome does not. --Word Wizzard4 (talk) 19:00, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

The Biomes1.7.2.png issues previously noted by Delvin4519 have been addressed and the file has been duly updated. :) (The Roofed Forest shares the what is presumably the Forest section, though the game makes it a shade darker for Roofed Forests). --Word Wizzard4 (talk) 06:46, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Gold ore at all levels in Mesas.
In the Mesa section, could you Add that gold ore generates at all levels in pe? –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.236.223.233 (talk) at 14:57, 25 June 2015 (UTC). Please sign your posts with


 * – KnightMiner  t/c 23:05, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Void
Add void biome! (It's only on 1.9 snapshots) 89.66.118.61 11:19, 11 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Would someone be able to add it to the main content of the article as I do not know which subsection to place it in (and also the biome ID for that matter). –Goandgoo ᐸ Talk Contribs 02:18, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Broken
There are some broken links in the technical details section. When clicking mesa or the others will cause it to go to the mesa from the biome list and not the technical details one. Could somebody fix this? -|Pika Party|- 98.216.47.99 12:30, 18 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Fixed. -- Orthotopetalk 13:08, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Mushroom forest in PE? (Say what now)
I know this hasn't been added yet to the wiki but here's what I found on PE. A Mushroom forest near a Village. O_O Say what now?

Well here's what happened. (And no this is not a fan story so don't delete please. :D thanks)

I just started on the new update on PE. I went to find more restores and I found a weird looking forest near one of the villages (BTW I'm still in that village). It was amazing cause I never seen just things as a forest with giant mushroom. (And also I'm on Single player so there's no players trolling me or anything). Minergamer1inonly (talk) 23:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC)Miner


 * Is what you found the Roofed Forest biome?
 * RoofedForest.png ― Illidicia  ( t + c ) 00:54, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I think so. I never seen one in my life before. (I did built one on XBox360 edition doe but that won't count) Minergamer1inonly (talk) 02:30, 13 November 2015 (UTC)Miner

Console Achievement
Greetings.

So I got the Adventuring Time achievement without visiting the end. I did the PS4 edition. It does not seem to require a single world. Could this be verified and possibly updated into the wiki page?

Desert needs rabbit spawning added.
Hexalobular (talk) 12:50, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Extreme Hills M and Extreme Hills+ M difference
Is there actually any difference between EH M and EH+ M? The pictures look the same, the descriptions look the same and I just spent a lot of time exploring both in large biomes maps, finding nothing to distinguish the two. Are there any differences at all? And if not, why there are both in the game? --DukeCZ (talk) 21:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, code-wise they're generated differently (the same difference between Extreme Hills and Extreme Hills+). Extreme Hills+ M should generate more trees than Extreme Hills M, but of course Extreme Hills M has a lot more gravel so the trees are still rare.  --Pokechu22 (talk) 22:03, 6 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for reply. That's what I was thinking, since Extreme Hills+ is very forested. However, I'm flying through my fifth large biomes Extreme Hills+ M and it's still same - none to almost no trees, and gravel everywhere. No differences at all. --DukeCZ (talk) 22:07, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Biome "Plains M" (128) not valid?
So while it might have been valid in prior versions, I don't think that Plains M (biome ID 128) is valid in the current release (1.10.2). My evidence:


 * 1) Create a new superflat world, using preset code "3;minecraft:bedrock,2*minecraft:dirt,minecraft:grass;128;village". The F3 will show "Ocean" (biome 0) instead of "Plains M".
 * 2) Using a biome-editing tool, like "Biome Painter", to edit a region to Biome ID 128, it will show "Plains" instead of "Plains M"
 * 3) I reported these issues as MC-105959: https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-105959 and it was closed as "Works as Intended" with the comment: "Biome 128 isn't assigned to anything and so revert back to Ocean. I guess the wiki is outdated."

So I propose we move the "Plains M" biome into the "unused" section of the biome list. Thoughts?

MegaTrain (talk) 15:52, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Huge mushrooms
"Mushroom Island is one of the only biomes where huge mushrooms can generate naturally." That's not true. --85.23.206.44 11:45, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
 * In fact, they do generate naturally there, and also, they are one of the only biomes where this happens. So it is true. –  Sealbudsman talk/contr 14:15, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Flower Forest
Is there any info for the levels at which flower's will grow at? Like is there a minimum and maximum height or will they grow from bedrock to build limit?


 * Flowers can exist in levels 1–255. Using bone meal on a grass block, you're only limited by where grass can exist with a free space above it. And during world generation, the biome decorator is able to put flowers at any of those same levels.


 * Ok thanks a lot. Appreciate the help :) –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.145.136.83 (talk) at 16:45, 02 February 2017 (UTC). Please sign your posts with

Biome Color
Hello, I couldn't find any information about the "Color / Variation Color" column in the § Biome IDs table. What does these colors correspond to in the game? Is it related to grass/foliage color? — Thomas645 (talk) 12:51, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Biome colors were removed in 1.8 or 1.9, and no longer serve any purpose in PC edition. However, they are kept in the table because they exist in Pocket Edition (though also unused), and are useful for mapping programs (e.g. AMIDST uses those colors as well). Grass and foliage colors are chosen based on a colormap, and not biome colors. Jocopa3 (talk) 18:16, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

A few details
Under Biome Types > Neutral, "Redwood Taiga Hills" should be "Redwood Taiga Hills M".

Also, Plains M is unobtainable through both customized and superflat worlds, defaulting to Ocean - basically, they've been removed from the game.

Thanks. — 47.147.237.79 16:52, 4 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Plains M is categorized as unused, and Redwood hills is a hills biome. The BlobsPaper.png 20:30, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Plains M's image
The image for the supposed 'Plains M' biome is actually a picture of the grasslands biome from beta 1.8. If you go back in the revision history to September 18 2011, you can see the same picture, and the picture itself is labeled '1.8 biomes grassland'. 122.106.169.23 06:32, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Need someone to add info to The Void biome
I'm trying to make a Skyblock map, so I went to the "The Void" superflat template. Unfortunately, I discovered that no mobs will ever spawn in this biome unless you use commands, spawn eggs, or mob spawners. I tried to add this information, but the page is protected. Is there anyone who can edit the page to add the info? Maybe an admin? Please? --108.230.40.67 20:01, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Please note that an admin is not always required. To check the protection level, add  to the end of the URL. The BlobsPaper.png 22:38, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

"Gravel Flowers"
needs a comma. :) It's the feature list for Extreme Hills; a comma is missing between Gravel and Flowers. (It's got me wondering what a gravel flower might look like, but it is in fact two separate links. :) -- eekee/derdiggermunster 90.255.108.59 16:32, 17 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Comma added! – Sealbudsman talk/contr 18:18, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Existence of Plains M
Has it ever existed? Seems strange that plains have two variant biomes... --94.101.51.160 12:39, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I guess it was the initial mutation for plains before they came up with the sunflowers. They probably just left the unused code. But now in 1.11 it's definitely gone, I just checked on the source code. Fusseel (talk) 01:12, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Biome Categorization does not match Biome.TempCategory Enum values in MC 1.10
I was using this article as a guide while writing a mod. The article lists 5 types: snowy, cold, medium/lush, dry/warm, neutral. However in the code I'm only finding 4 values for the TempCategory biome classification: COLD, MEDIUM, WARM, OCEAN. I'd change this myself, but I'm new to modding and I don't want to jump to gun on a huge article rewrite if I'm wrong for some reason. Orbenn (talk) 23:10, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You are right. In the article the so called "snowy" actually is the TempCategory COLD while "cold" and "medium/lush" are both from the TempCategory MEDIUM. The separation of the two medium categories exists, because in the biomes labeled "cold" it'll snow at a certain height and in the biomes labeled "medium/lush" there will never be any snow. The terminology doesn't strictly follow the terms used in the code as you can see. Fusseel (talk) 00:42, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Compilation images
It isn't necessary to combine the images together, the separate images can simply be placed next to each other. Keeping them separate allows individual images to be changed easier, and allows for reuse on other pages. Fusseel@Superspace please upload the new images used in the compilations in their full resolution separately. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 10:53, 13 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I am aware that it would be harder to update images if they are used in a compilation. However, having a massive "tower" of images like what was seen in the Hill biome was aesthetically unpleasant. I can't speak for Fusseel so I don't know his or her reasoning behind the other compilation (which in my opinion was unnecessary since the End biome only had 2 images). If someone with knowledge of table formatting could find a way to place the individual Hill image files in a more compact pattern (like in the compilation image) within the table, we'd definitely do it that way. The individual Hill images have already been uploaded and should still exist for use in other pages. Superspace (talk) 19:05, 13 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Maybe something like:


 * TheEnd_1.9.png
 * End (Biome Part).png
 * New_End_15w31b.png
 * }
 * and
 * }
 * and


 * ColdTaigaHills.png
 * Forest Hills Biome.png
 * Redwood Hills.png
 * JungleHills.png
 * DesertHills.png
 * }
 * – Sealbudsman talk/contr 19:18, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * DesertHills.png
 * }
 * – Sealbudsman talk/contr 19:18, 13 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Perfect! That's exactly what I was imagining. I'm not sure how well that formatting would mesh with the actual table though. I will experiment and see. Superspace (talk) 04:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I just saw that the table was getting longer and longer because of the images so I made them into one compilation. I didn't think of including the separate images side by side. But I have a minor problem with this: if one of the images changes with a new aspect ratio the compilation is going to look terrible. That wasn't possible when there was only one file containing the whole compilation and to be honest I didn't think that anyone would have any problem changing a single image inside of this one file. But alright, we'll see how this goes. Fusseel (talk) 10:53, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Minor detail to be edited
Since Plains M has been removed like it should've a while ago, the note on how many biomes there are near the top of the page needs to be edited as well. I also thought that it could redundantly add the number of actually obtainable biomes in a normal world, which is three less than the total.

47.150.251.217 17:41, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The BlobsPaper.png 01:18, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * There are 62 biomes, not 63. Simply counting the entries on the page yields that number. Btw, plains M never was a thing. It either was a prank by someone or just a mistake, as the internal name of the sunflower plains is "mutated_plains". --Fusseel (talk) 10:17, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Vertical tables on mobile
The wide tables on here look pretty bad on mobile, would styling the table to be vertical be acceptable for mobile? We could probably do this for other wide tables where the headers aren't very important. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 03:14, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * It doesn't look too bad on desktop either. The biome names and sprites make very nice pseudo-headers. With some minor adjustments to the width, I definitely this change.  Superspace (talk) 06:44, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we just scrap the table entirely, and go for a more infoboxish styley. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 07:14, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * That could work too. I actually prefer that setup, mainly because it doesn't look as cluttered with a bunch of stacked headers. How would it work with multiple images? (In the case of hills/plateaus.) Superspace (talk) 07:35, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I have to say although I like this last suggestion of yours it won't work out. You picked two biomes with a decently sized description, but that's not the case for most of them. There are many biomes where the description consist of only one sentence, sometime not even more than ten words. The images and tables on the right will be fine, but the left side of the page featuring the descriptions will be almost empty at some places. That's just going to look terrible. Of course one could fill that space with some more images, but that would only lead to the whole page becoming a real mess like it already is the case with generated structures. A table like now is the best way for structuring such a complex article. But using a vertical design isn't going to help. Mobile users will benefit from this change, but c'mon, you can't tell me that it "doesn't look too bad" on desktop. It's terrible! One way or the other mobile or desktop will have to be prioritized. There is no way of supporting both of them in an equally good looking way. Fusseel (talk) 10:37, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I have to disagree. The tables already have a loads of empty space on single line descriptions, the only real difference is it being broken up by the text being right in the centre of it, which we could probably still do if that is the issue. In fact the only increase in empty space is ~40px, half of which comes from the header having its own line. If we could find a way to pull the floating content to be inline with the header, the height of each "row" would only be ~20px higher.
 * Here's a comparison of a single line description (with the largest features text), showing only a small increase in empty space and height: http://i.imgur.com/O5lwpkS.png
 * Here's a comparison of a long description on a common smaller resolution (1366x768), showing an improvement in height, due not only to the slightly larger width for the description, but the text wrapping around the floated content: http://i.imgur.com/Xe3CR2f.png
 * Ultimately, the design looks to me much more readable on smaller screens (including desktop), while wasting a small amount of space on large screens. Seems like a net win.
 * Also in case I wasn't clear, the original vertical table design would be mobile only, desktop wouldn't change. –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 12:30, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * You really do back up your arguments very well that's for sure. ^^ I understand that the increase/decrease in size is minor, but I still prefer the table from a visual standpoint. But if it's possible to show the vertical table only on mobile im cool with that, but I wouldn't know how to do it. Fusseel (talk) 17:00, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I personally like the section approach, I've never been a fan of giant tables to show that kind of information which is why I was so much in favor of scrapping it on Commands. My only concern is with the two side boxes, the text becomes quite thin (iPad size simulation) before it entirely moves below the infobox/picture. I guess it already does that only worse on the actually article's table so its still an improvement. – KnightMiner  t/c 17:24, 10 July 2017 (UTC)