Talk:Java Edition version history

Noone Added Lily Pads
self explanitory. I'd add them myself but I lack sufficient information on the item.

Page Clean Up
The version page is becoming way too cluttered. I think that having a quick list of the version releases and days is sufficient having links to the version updates themselves (possibly with their own pages) would be just as effective. --Youassassin 00:44, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You're not alone in thinking that this page is cluttered, unorganized, filled with duplicates and generally a pain-in-the-arse to read. Ever since about 1.2 or 1.3, no one has ever really maintained the pages, just added stuff. I'm in the process of organizing and improving the readibility of previous updates, and while the content of the list of things added in 1.8 was added by others, I reorganized it heavily to how neat it looks now. I'm also trying to get Public released development versions their own page to stop confusion, and because they weren't official updates. So really, you can help by finding and removing duplicates, and when people add their bit to an entry, they tend to use "Note:" or use parenthesis. Help by actually editing the idea into an actual sentence. Another way to generally help is to prioritize bugs and additions by how prominant they are, major additions being at the top. A new terrain generation code should go before "fog is now toggled by F3+F", as an example. UGoBoom 02:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that this page is too big. I think we should do something like on TF2 Wiki. It has new page for each update, and it's much easier to handle like that. Here's example: [] xPaw 15:31, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

1.8 Bugs

 * Shift clicking into a full inventory crashes game with "saving chunks" screen. Anyone else get that?
 * -Confirmed, it happened to me when I tried to drop an ender pearl into a full chest by shift clicking. -Gordo89


 * Rain falls through the roof on SMP not sure about SP tho.
 * -I have this on my server too, especially in ravines with rock ceiling. -Kaijev


 * Glass doesn't push away this little blocks. (At least in Creative Mode) http:// c.j4k.be/A8Bl
 * I've never remember glass pushing the pickups. Not even 1.5 and before. Not a new bug. [[Image:TK.gif]]  | TheKax |   Talk   17:15, 14 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Can't click and drag anything in the inventory, just goes to hotbar and back.

This was already a bug in Prerelease 1 and 2, but we should still add it to New Bugs as it is major. UGoBoom 22:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
 * When swimming, or on a boat ride, a blue line appears at the horizon. Seems to be some sort of positioning problem, as it is also visible, when underwater. (only tested in SMP so far) --94.220.74.68 21:27, 14 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Random cubes of air are generated in deep water. not particularly rare.


 * Arrows behave strange. When shot at the top of a block they at first stay where they hit, and then they jump a few pixels away. When the arrow is shot at a side face of a block, the bug is better notable: the arrow jumps up to the upper edge! Can anyone confirm that? Or is that effect intentional?
 * - It allready was present in 1.7.3 now shot on the close edge of a block it can jump to upper edge of the block above it.


 * Unrealistic light behavior: The light directly beneath a torch seems very cold and white, only further away the light begins to be more warm and red. Furthermore, when the red light of a torch and the blue moonlight mix, it becomes purple which looks quite strange.


 * I found a very small lake, only 5x5 blocks and 1 block deep, containing 4 squids. That seems to be a bit too much? EDIT: now i even found a 3x1x1 lake where a squid spawned!


 * Doors open on left click and on right click while fence gates only do on right click! Is that intentional?


 * More a suggestion: In Creative Mode existing blocks are too easy to break. In particular when accidentally trying to open a door with left click the door breaks. Incelebrity 12:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Indestructibel Mushrooms! Right now im standing under a tree where a few brown little mushrooms grow. When i click on them they disappear for a short while and spawn at the same position again! I cant pick them up eighter!
 * Are you near spawn in SMP as a non-op? 1.8 added in spawn protection. --Credomane 01:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * -Yep, i just had the same idea!


 * The experience bug was fixed in 1.8-pre2. They now are now grouped into prime numbers. Needs removed from the 1.8 bug list. http://twitter.com/#!/jeb_/status/113345487742054400 --Credomane 01:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Sleeping is impossible! I've checked behind every wall/floor/roof and still monsters wake me up. Great for farming items, but still so annoying.
 * -If im am right about this the bed has to be 2 block aways from the walls on every side


 * Crafting via shift click is not limited to 64 items like the version history says: "Shift-Clicking items will craft the maximum possible amount of what you are trying to craft with the limit at 64" However on my vanilla SMP 1.8.1 Server I can put 2*32 planks into a crafting box and by shift clicking I will get the full 128 sticks instead of just 64. --Nordic42 10:40, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Does also apply to vanilla SSP 1.8.1 --Nordic42 10:54, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Upon further review this is no bug, but rather an error in the version history. Just remove this part: "with the limit at 64" --Nordic42 11:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

It was the mod, sorry. Ray 14:46, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * New bug, shift clicking a golden apple on the unlimited items screen or TO the unlimited items screen will disconnect you from SMP but wont crash server.[Not tested in SSP and I do have the inventory tweaks mod, so one of those might contribute, will test more before putting on bug list] Ray 14:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Block cloning glich
The block cloning glich still works in 1.7.2

Herobrine debate
There's a bit of an edit war going on with adding and removing the reference to Herobrine, as made in the patch notes. I don't care either way, but it seems a consensus decision would be better than this edit warring over what should be a simple page. CMaster 00:54, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If a change has actually been made to the game or its services, it belongs here. Anything else is simply spam. It's not that hard to understand, and it's been decided long ago, multiple times, as the Herobrine articles were deleted. Kizzycocoa's user subpage isn't any better, and posting jokes in a version history page (or the entire wiki, for that matter) is, again, only spamming.--OhiraKyou 01:18, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like if we copied the patch notes verbatim, and then added in clarifications and notes in some way that clearly marked them as the wiki's words. Unfortunately, since we instead have an odd mix of our own notes, rewrites of Notch's words, and straight pasting of Notch's notes, with no way to tell which is which, the Herobrine note can't be included without an awkward disclaimer or confusing people. Manifold 02:36, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's just easier to paste Notch's patch notes and then add in stuff he wasn't aware of instead of typing everything from scratch. However, useless information shouldn't be included, regardless of what notes my accompany them.--OhiraKyou 02:45, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree, this is a "Version history" page, not a patch note page. There are several places to go if you want Notch's version of his notes, namely his page. That said, it should be included with its disclaimer so that people who see the "patch notes" can come here to see what it really means.  Dctrjons 11:51, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

New bug(fix)s (Noticed in 1.7_01, could have been earlier?)
Kinda late, but I haven't bothered to post this to here till now. Sorry.

Jakkor 10:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Grass sides will now always be biome coloured. It's no longer dependent on the fancy/fast graphics setting.
 * You can no longer hit or place blocks through doors when standing on the inside of it. This also applies to skeletons, which means it is now safe to place doors from the inside of your house.

1.7.3 Bugs
-Doors will now break if a piston pushes them.

-Sticky Pistons may get the normal piston texture or the moving part of the piston gets invisible under certain circumstances

-Pistons can let Blocks dissappear if the block gets pushed by a second Piston shortly after it got pushed by the first

It mainly broke some of my Piston creations... :(

- Suffocation now deals enormous damage, up to 8 hearts a second. It is literally impossible to save yourself.


 * Sign your post. And yesterday I was on, and was trying to see how much damage suffocation does, I forget, but it was DEFINITELY not 8 hearts. Do you have any mods? Ajc 1254 12:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Bed/Inventory glitch
The orientation of the player when this glitch is used is dependent of THE ORIENTATION OF THE BED THE PLAYER IS USING. It does NOT change from version to version. I have tested it many times over so please, STOP putting it down as a glitch after EACH update.

1.7.3 Disappearing Chests
http://twitter.com/#!/jeb_/status/89426783866339328

"No 1.7.3 is still better than 1.7.2, the bug is that when a chunk is unloaded, it will remove some entities (furnaces and chests)"

Minecart
If you're riding on a minecraft and look back, at a certain angle, the cart starts to flicker. This also causes some FPS drops.

Torches on Fences in 1.7
It seems that the change to allow fences to be stacked also allows you to place torches on top of fences. Someone want to add that to the 1.7 changes? Tony311 15:45, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Pick glitch 1.7.3 (and prior)
When your pick is worn out and on its last use before it breaks, the final block that you mine does not drop but disappears along with the pick! This happens with any type of pick.

Highly infuriating if you are mining diamond (for example) when it's on its last use as you lose the diamond.

This has been happening for a lot of versions now but I can't figure out how to add it to the bugs pages for Notch to fix ? ? ? Can someone add it please?

Rik 10:40, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Sand Duping Glitch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMEdctqH6V0

Basically, it tosses broken sand blocks all over the place ad-infinitum. Also works for Gravel. Was about to delete the entry off the page until I verified it with a simple google search and testing for myself.

Xirema 22:42, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Redstone was named on July 7, not July 9.
The minor details! On Notch's thumblr blog, he named this "red stuff" redstone on July 7. Is it a mistake that it says July 9 on the articles (well, I've only checked Redstone (Ore)), or purposeful? --Kris159 06:18, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You have the reference, and you know how to edit, so update the articles yourself. ;) 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 05:59, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, to be fair, Notch makes it clear that he came up with the name "Redstone Dust" the night before that blog post (on July 6). So, text on the matter could read something like "Notch came up with the name "Redstone Dust" on July 6, 2010, and announced it the next day.[ref]", or something to that effect. =) 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:01, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Sapling
The Sapling was added in 0.0.11. Here's a proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgxTqbiZE88 at 0:17

DeathStar99 14:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * That's proof of its presence, not its addition (but absent proof of saplings being in earlier versions, that's about as good as we'll get). 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Pressure plates and the Nether
Not sure if this is a new bug or not, but (in 1.7.3) when I go into the Nether, pressure plates stop working. This applies both for pressure plates in the Nether after entering, and upon returning to the normal world pressure plates there aren't working either. Quitting the game to the main menu screen then reentering the map makes the plates work again both in the Nether and the normal world, but portal travel either direction makes them stop working again until quit-and-reopen is used. - TheBushranger 08:33, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * As a note, further testing shows that the pressure plates resume normal working status after a minute or so. - TheBushranger 08:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Better Version History
It's one line of text, adding a link to the Pocket Edition Version History. Some people (Like my brother, Cman), will put in 'Version History', look for the Pocket Edition's Version History.So here's the link to that page:User:Ajc_1254/BetterVersionHistory.--Yours truly, Ajc_1254 12:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC) P.S. How do I get the time, date and(at least)the UTC of?

allow-fly
I remember seeing this somewhere, but when I searched (Ctrl + F) on this page for "fly", the only results are a bug and something else. Where is it? Cool12309(T 02:58, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

It's "allow-flight". C ali nou - talk × contribs » 20:50, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

1.8 Leak
Should the 1.8 leak information be added to the page as a new version, or should we just compile a list here in the discussion page to be ready for 1.8 release? Levy 22:22, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't touch the 'page' until it is actually released. Changes should probably left here.  Then it can be a reference for bug hunters and a reference for things that are 'known' changes so they aren't finding a bunch of changes that are widely known.Dctrjons 22:55, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree/Disagree to: 1.8 pre should be added to the version history page.


 * I was going to post here to leave everything about 1.8 in future tense, until it's officially released. Cool12309(T 22:49, 9 September 2011


 * This is an official version, and it's worthy to have it's own section. a note on it being a leaked version is necessary thou.--Yurisho 03:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Jeb is going to release an update for the pre-release, so it may as well be an official version. It's mentioned all over the wiki already, so why not here as well? We'd also want to show the differences between the two (or more) pre-release versions. – ultradude25 ( T &#124; C ) at 22:47, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Both releases pre1 and pre2 should definitely be added to the wiki. Having them tweeted by Jeb is official enough, imo. - Tyron


 * The 1.8 pre 1&2 are both testing versions. They aren't official versions so they should not be treated as such. Official versions are versions that are updated via the client update, not manually replacing the jar file.


 * It's part of the development history. Mojang itself let it out. It's an official version. Also, I actually stated something to agree/disagree with and tried to fix the icons by the individual posts. Sorry if I said you agreed when you didn't. Travürsa 17:38, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

So far there seems to be more agrees than disagrees, so I've set up the skeleton for the 1.8 version histories, but kept them commented. Add to them while leaving them commented and once this is agreed upon we can uncomment them. – ultradude25 ( T &#124; C ) at 14:28, 13 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The standard for version history has gone to hell already, we don't need it to go further into it's pit. These pre-releases are not updated through the client, so they are NOT an official update. Just because Mojang distributed it doesn't mean it is meant to be the official update. Another thing to note is that through the beta mostly, readability of the version history page has really made worse. When people in the future read about the past's history and how the game was changed, they do not care about every little damn detail about the smallest things; it just gets in the way of the readers getting the GIST of an update. Same thing here: since these prereleases are development versions that were not forced into a client update for everyone, it will only add confusion to others in the future reading this. Remember, this page is way too long as it is, and we really need to start to find a way to split up. Creating a new page with info of changes in publicly released development versions is a great idea, especially most of the "Agrees" are because they want this info on the wiki; not because they necessarily want it on this page. As well as the last reasons, by putting a development version page, it will be a step in the right direction about the readibility and most importantly, how well readers in the future will understand what they were reading and how it exactly happened back then. --UGoBoom 23:02, 13 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with UGoBoom 100%. We could make a page with what is already listed here in the prerelease, then just put a link in place of the information saying "for information regarding the 1.8 prereleases, click here." I've been against putting the notes here from the beginning and I knew there would be too much arguing over the matter. Does the new page solution seem like a reasonable compromise to everyone else? Perhaps 1.8 Prerelease? Levy 01:08, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
 * More like Version_History/development_versions or Development_version_history so that we can include non-1.8 specific development logs, because I can almost guarantee that these public released dev versions are going to be a trend in future updates, so helpful minecrafters can help betatest the update before everyone who doesn't know what they are doing and just want to play a stable game version can keep doing that. I also recommend that if such a page were to be introduced, in the summary plot at the top of the page, another line should say something like "Public-Released development version change logs can be found here " UGoBoom 02:45, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

1.8 Pre-release "notes"
Have at it. Dctrjons 22:57, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Pretty much everything from the Upcoming Features list. Levy 23:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes and no, there are quite a few differences between what 'pre 1.8-is' and what 'may be'. And on that note would suggest this is kept to only differences or clarifications to the upcoming features page. I.O.W. Read that first.  Dctrjons 16:22, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

New Features:
 * XP orbs that do nothing (yet (except cause major lag when you drop about 10,000 of them))
 * Hitbox on the Chicken mob is fixed, no longer only hittable on their feet.
 * Seed number can be found in the debug mode. (F3)
 * Torch lighting flickers.
 * Punching strength has returned to being 1/2 heart.
 * Holding the right mouse button with a sword in hand turns the sword into a blocking position.
 * Sugar cane now spawns and can be planted on sand adjacent to water, in addition to dirt.
 * Cooked chicken heals 3 food icons.
 * Ender Pearl dropped by Endermen. (Use Unknown.)
 * Lakes large enough to not be the little ponds, yet too small to be ocean spawn inland.
 * Some spots of the ocean are incredibly deep, so deep a player could start drowning before hitting the bottom.
 * Ability to run and heal tied to food bar state (guesses - above 3 to run, above 7 to heal)
 * ?? Effects of disease
 * ?? Blue spider poison does ~5 hearts damage but will not take last 1/2 heart (seemed to stay at 1/2 heart before bitten again)
 * Eating too much raw food and rotten flesh can give the player a food poisoning state, where the food bar turns green. It will stay green until one full icon is quickly depleted. Food poisoning causes you to get hungry faster, but will still heal you.

Bugs
 * Item duplication - one way seems to be leaving the crafting screen with things still on the 'table'
 * Furnace crash - lighting error fixes available (change zz.class)
 * Ghasts don't glow like they are supposed to, possibly due to new lighting engine.
 * Torches placed underwater are immediately removed, but the light remains

Prerelase Info
• Added Melon and Melon seeds

• Added Pumpkin seeds

• Added wine and iron bars

• Added large and more interesting mountains

• New types of food - Raw beef, Steak (i do not remember every types) and new texture for Porkchop

• Experience orbs and of course experience

• Ender pearls

Descructable bedrock
You can break the bottommost bedrock layer in Creative mode - and die when falling into the void below.

I think it is NOT a bug. In creative mode user is able to place bedrock so it have to be desctructable. --83.22.166.223 13:32, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Update 1.8 MP mapbug
On my minecraft mp server the old chunks dont match with the new chunks and the new ocean is one block down than the old one. Anyone got the same problems?!


 * It is known, that with this update the chunck generation changed, and so the chunks won't match with old ones. Sorry. For the ocean level: I don't know if it changed, but it looks like... --freaktechnik (w 17:39, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Sunrise/Sunset
Was the sky color during sunrise and sunset updated in 1.8?

Some bugs
I just updated to 1.8 and several of my chests are dark, as if in a smoky black box. This can be fixed by placing a torch nearby, and it stays fixed so you can take the torch back down immediately. Also, my game crashed while riding a minecart and my train of two furnace carts and a regular turned into five furnace carts.

1.8 bug fix
Placing a painting on the same block as a stone button or a sign no longer removes collisions, as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sY6UjmuYKo

1.8pre bugs still applying to 1.8 and 1.8.1
A lot of minor bugs, such as lighting bugs and blocks still missing from the item picker in creative mode, from 1.8pre1 and 1.8pre2 still apply to 1.8 and 1.8.1. Should they be included under "New bugs" on this page? Or do you think Mojang will still notice them on Known bugs/Version 1.8 v2 and Known bugs/Version 1.8 v2? --31stCenturyMatt 10:12, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Just add the major bugs to the new bugs list, mainly the gamebreaking bugs, or the bugs that cause certain things to be unusable, which includes that item picker lacking things bug. Any bug from the 1.8 pre1/2 that still applies in 1.8.1 should be added in the known bugs page: that is where Mojang looks for things to fix, not the version history page. UGoBoom 18:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Food Stackability
Cake is not stackable neither

Endermen in SMP
Endermen don't seem to aggro in SMP.

Chat limitations
Not being able to scroll in chat should surely be a bug. Why are we limited to the last few lines when Improved Chat can expand this to a usable, scrolling chat history with the added bonus of binding keys and more? Busy servers are plentiful, admin commands are long and the ability to scan back through missed chats after a fierce battle is infinitely useful. This is a mod that should be absorbed into vanilla MC, much as pistons were. It adds functionality on a massive scale.

1.8 SMP /time set redstone bug
This doesn't appear to have been fixed in 1.8. Can anyone confirm? Burpen 13:17, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Water level change in 1.8?
Why is there no mention of this? The water level is now at 63, when it used to be at 64. 1.7 maps now have a jarring water level border.


 * I too noticed the sea level was reduced to Y-63 or the 62.Layer respectively. 87.122.158.59 09:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Tall grass will now spread - NOPE
"Tall grass will now spread" I tested this by placing a single Tall Grass. Leaving it for half an hour (and remaining somewhat close to it the entire time) did not make it spread to a single neighboring grass block.

I haven't tested with longer than half an hour, but I'm pretty sure this myth is busted unless someone else wants to test it as well.

--IQAndreas 20:29, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

1.8 particle changes
In the 1.8 section, shouldn't "Destroying boats and minecarts now creates particles" be added to the sub-section about particle effect changes?Lemonlime 21:20, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

1.8 Odds and Ends
Has anyone else noticed that bone-meal on a mushroom will create a huge mushroom? Why has this not been added to the version history list? Also, the fog color changing when you look into the sunset/sunrise.

Its even listed in the Minecraft News in your client before logging in.

1.9 Pre-release Features

 * Swamp biomes are darker (darker grass/water).
 * Lilly pads on water in swamp biomes.
 * Snow biomes are back.
 * Lava + water creates (smooth) stone instead of cobble stone.
 * New Items Added
 * Nether Brick
 * Nether Brick Fence
 * Blaze Rod
 * Ghast Tear
 * Nether Wart
 * Unlabeled yellow item between ghast tear and nether wart.
 * I don't think we should put a "pre-release" section for 1.9 lets wait till there is a final release. --Anthrophobic 15:14, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Why not? There were pre-release sections for 1.8. BeBoo 15:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Because there are testing features inside the pre-release. Like the jumping changes your experience bar on each jump. Maybe we should make a pre-release version history page. Clearly the pre-releases and nightly builds will become a regular thing. So why not give it a different section. --Anthrophobic 15:31, 22 September 2011 (UTC) 15:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This guy has got the point. Look in the middle of this discusion page, you'll see a topic that supports prereleases getting their own page. It's just that a wiki expert who knows how to correctly set up such a page is too lazy and/or hasn't seen this idea yet. UGoBoom 19:43, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Its no big deal, just pre-release version do not mean its written in stone, much less what we will get on the final release of the version. If nightly builds are coming in the future, I see no reason not to set up a pre-release/nightly build page for releases as this one. The version page should be for final releases in my opinion. But meh, like I said no biggy. --Anthrophobic 19:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Nether Bridge/Brick
Should the bridges be considered a new biome? Or do they spawn every where in the nether?

1.9 Prerelease Features
-2 New Nether mobs -Blaze -Magma Cube -4 New items -Gold Nugget -Nether Wart -Blaze Rod -Ghast Tear -2 New Blocks -Nether Brick -Nether Brick Fence -Blocks directly under water will drip from the underside

-NPC's

-Re-done abandoned mine structure

-Nether Ruins

-Snowmen

-Lilly pads in swamps

-Black swamp grass

-The ceiling of the cave drip if an underground lake is just above.


 * Is there a need for this section? There is already the exact same thing above this one. Delete? --Anthrophobic 19:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

1.9 Bugs.

 * Jumping gives you experience. I'm not sure if it's intentional.


 * Another problem is that the biome colors for swamp grass don't blend with normal grass like all the other grass shades do. 50.106.80.156 20:22, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I believe another bug is that if you have multiple bowls stacked in your inventory and then attempt to make mushroom stew by right-clicking a mooshroom, you lose all your bowls for one mushroom stew. Can someone else replicate? --Renrue 00:27, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Blazes still spawn on servers with Monsters=False in the nether.

1.9 Bugs
Holding shift to jump not working anymore is no bug -> http://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftfaq/comments/koag7/q_jumping_in_pre19_a_exp_is_a_bug_nohold_is_a/

i cant play 1.9....the lag is so bad in ssp that i get 2 frames a second.. i have it set to fast graphics, smooth lighting is off, fog is tiny.. i have no idea what is now drawing so much memory in 1.9....1.8.1 works just fine--Silverfox6000 00:45, 23 September 2011 (UTC)