Talk:Mob

The pointless proliferation of mob categories
This elaboration of mobs into a dozen categories is useless and has no basis in the game, as far as I can see. This is just something somebody made up one day, not information about the game itself. This page used to group mobs by how they affected/were affected by game mechanics, which was useful information everybody needs to know to thrive and make progress. It needed some work, because it didn't reflect Bedrock's category of Aquatic Mobs, but the way they're organized now doesn't accomplish that. I'd like to see the page returned to a more useful set of categories: basically, Passive, Neutral, and Hostile Mobs for Java, plus Aquatic Mobs for Bedrock, and get rid of the made-up ones like the "peaceful" versus "defensive" subcategories of passive mobs and the "tameable" and "trusting" categories. There are so many categories now that many mobs fit in more than one of them, and that makes them all seem less meaningful. – Auldrick (talk &middot; contribs) 17:29, 10 August 2019 (UTC)


 * I'd propose removing "neutral" entirely, as the game itself never uses it. The mobs in the neutral category pretty easily fit into "peaceful" or "hostile" anyway. Otherwise, I would only support removing Tameable, Trusting, and Ambient, as those are all more behaviors of mobs. The defensive category could also be removed, but if we're bent on keeping some sort of "neutral" classification, it could serve to fit that purpose. Though I'd also be fine if that was removed. I would oppose adding an aquatic mob section, as there's no real need for it. We don't have any other subcategory like that in this list, and they're listed later down the page anyway. Also, the aquatic classification is not unique to Bedrock. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 17:57, 12 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The list of mobs should only include each mob once, and thus its categories ought to be mutually exclusive. I also think it should be based on game mechanics to the extreme; there is no basis as far as I can see to having Utility Mobs as their own category. Iron Golems are neutral and Snow Golems passive towards the player, and their hostility towards certain other mobs shouldn't be a relevant factor any more than that of Endermen or Guardians.
 * Nevertheless, some of the categories now deleted contained useful information, especially so the Despawnable Mobs, which I took the liberty of returning to the article. They should, in my opinion, be in the section about categorizing of mobs, as nowhere is it stated that these categories need to be mutually exclusive, and as far as I can see, some of them are already not based purely on game mechanics. Blue Banana whotookthisname (talk) 00:48, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Well I think it is useful Because Peaceful means they will never attack, Neutral means they will only attack IF provoked ( Did i spell that right??? ) And hostile means they will ALWAYS Attack So i think that i should stay the way it is Alpha 1 AKA Alexia Barnes (talk) 08:49, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Rare Mobs
So I been reading the mobs list and found that they didn't mention the ilusive pink sheep, brown mooshroom, charged creeper, and enderman-made golem.

Anyone who doesn't know, the pink sheep is a pink wool sheep that spawns in nature. A brown mooshroom is a normal mooshroom struck by lightning. A charged creeper is a creeper struck by lightning. And finally, an enderman-made- golem is a iron or snow golem made by an enderman {the enderman must place a carved pumpkin down where it must go to make a golem}

--205.235.33.196 02:05, 19 August 2019 (UTC)#st@rk1d--205.235.33.196 02:05, 19 August 2019 (UTC)


 * These are not unique mobs, they're just variations of existing mobs. The enderman-made golem doesn't even have anything unique about its appearance or behavior. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 17:59, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Cave Spider Hostility
The cave spider will attack players without provocation. Currently the wiki has them under the 'monster' category which requires players to 1st attack. It's suggested that the cave spider is relocated to the 'hostile mobs'. Flippywhippykippy (talk)


 * The cave spider, like the spider, is neutral in high light levels. It's complicated enough that you're right, and the page is right, both at the same time; the terms 'hostile' and 'neutral' are community terms and not baked into the game, hence the bad fit. – Sealbudsman talk | contribs 16:27, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Planned Mobs Section
I think in the mob list there should be a "Planned Mobs" section for mobs that have been announced but are not yet in developmental versions (eg; piglins, hoglins)73.208.227.101 21:59, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I aggree :) –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.155.205.202 (talk) at 07:40, 4 December 2019 (UTC). Please sign your posts with

Bees
Where will bees go when 1.15/1.14 releases? 205.222.3.56 13:31, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Neutral mobs73.208.227.101 20:57, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Mob Page
Hello there, i want to suggest few changes about Mob page. I have 2 problems with it:

PS: Sorry for english

1) In the neutral section, it is divided into Animals and Monsters. That is useless and bad since we have Classification bellow the list and other sections dont have this, for example Passive mobs dont have Villagers, a humanoid separated from animals, or Hostile mobs where silverfish, an animal separated from monsters. I suggest we remove these ,,animals and monsters", they are neutral and that is what matters.

2) In the list, there are mobs from Minecraft Earth and Minecraft Dungeons like Mob of Me, Arch Illager etc. These shouldnt be there because this wiki and especially that page is for Minecraft and these mobs are not in minecraft and it can easily confuse new players searching for mobs. Their games are not minecraft, they are separated games sharing very much but theyre different. Also these mobs are then absent from any other section in the page. I dont say we need to remove them from the wiki entirely, but i think it should ve proper to move them either to the pages of their game or make new page.

Also in that (oh god) "openable section" called Entities way down in Mobs and Entities pages. I think that falls under same category as Mob page and it should be removed from there too.

Thank you for your time. Klusimo (talk) 08:13, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Minecraft Earch is Minecraft, in another incarnation. I don't object to reorganizing the article like you suggest, but I disagree with removing Minecraft Earth mobs. ~ Amatulic (talk) 17:03, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course, both Minecraft Earth and Dungeons ARE minecraft reincarnated BUT they are not the same, they arent versions of one game, they are separate games based around certain theme that why i want to do that, we can have separate page for that but Mob page is for mobs in Minecraft and not in other Minecraft-themed games. ALSO there will be more mobs in these games, probably a heck of them so itll get confusing. Also also, good similar example is pokemons, you have Pokemon Red and Pokemon Go, they are games based around one theme (pokemons) BUT they arent same game. You can have same pokemons in these games, but they are not same game. Thats my reasons. Klusimo (talk) 19:58, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * There is a separate section of this article about mobs exclusive to Minecraft Earth. Separated out that way, there is no confusion at all. It's quite clear. This page applies to all mobs in all incarnations of Minecraft. Because the different versions have such a large overlap, it wouldn't be practical to maintain separate articles that would have largely the same content.
 * I have no objection to your proposal to reorganize the animals and monsters, though. ~ Amatulic (talk) 17:20, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Okey, lets keep them but we should at least add some disclaimer so that players dont think its in the original (the onee aaannnd onlyyyy..) Minecraft. Anyways i am changing the neutral section. Klusimo (talk) 06:58, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I like the animals vs monsters in neutral, because the former are in peaceful mode the latter are not, it's nice to separate them 82.17.190.1 18:27, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree.. Monster Nutural and Animal Nutrals are different for this reason. you don't get endermen or spiders etc in peaceful mode. 129.67.123.22 07:54, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I prefer to merge it, even though iron golem only attack neutral monster. ImakerB (talk) 08:48, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * "Can you STOP dividing neutrals?! We have this list based on mob's behaviour to player, if it attacks or do not or something else. We DONT differ mobs based on things like this so stop" no because there are two types of "neutral mobs" the monster ones that dont spawn in the peaceful mode, and the mobs that do. You seem to be the *only person* who takes issue with this and it's getting annoying you getting into edit wars rather that discussing it on the talk page. –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.17.190.1 (talk) at 22:28, 9 March 2020 (UTC). Please sign your posts with
 * "Can you STOP dividing neutrals?! We have this list based on mob's behaviour to player, if it attacks or do not or something else. We DONT differ mobs based on things like this so stop" no because there are two types of "neutral mobs" the monster ones that dont spawn in the peaceful mode, and the mobs that do. You seem to be the *only person* who takes issue with this and it's getting annoying you getting into edit wars rather that discussing it on the talk page. –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.17.190.1 (talk) at 22:28, 9 March 2020 (UTC). Please sign your posts with

Minecraft Story Mode
Minecraft Story Mode (RIP btw) had some exclusive mobs, would they go in the spin off game mobs section?73.208.227.101 20:38, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

69.116.3.47 22:53, 30 March 2020 (UTC) We should add a Character article for mobs with NAMES that don't exist in Minecraft Java, Bedrock, Earth and New Nintendo 3ds. This should fix the problem with MC SStroy mode and MC dungeons. There will be exceptions (like the Witherstorm, Blocco, large Henry and big Hank, Benedict (Forgot his mob type, using minecraft story mode fandom wiki) Giant ghast, icy golem, and magma golem and additions to previously existing articles, Like PAMA zombies as an another part of the zombie article. wait, are minecraft story mode mobs going to be in minecraft (without modding) or no?

Bump RobbyB3ll4s (talk) 23:39, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Piglin classification
I think Piglin is classified as a Hostile mob because it is hostile when the player is in the default state. 125.12.33.204 12:34, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

New "Jockey" section?
This had been touched on before, but I propose moving the "jockey"-type mobs to their own section (including skeleton horsemen). Jockeys are not in any sense unique mobs, so listing them as if they were is misleading. A separate section would also allow a note explaining this, and it would keep the direct links to these pages on this page.

I'd also be open to removing them from the page completely, but that may be a separate issue. Thoughts? -PancakeIdentity (talk) 23:13, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * moving jockeys to a separate section and not treating them like single mobs, but I don't think they should be removed completely; there should be some explanation that certain mobs can spawn riding other mobs. – Sonicwave talk  23:23, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Is there a difference code-wise between a jockey and a mob riding another mob spawned with commands? I.e. e.g. can any of the jockeys be spawned with a unique command? Blue Banana whotookthisname (talk) 13:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * No. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 19:31, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure jockeys just refer to a mob riding another mob. We could have a section listing all of the jockeys that spawn naturally. Note that Bedrock Edition has many different baby zombie jockeys, while Java only has chickens. The BlobsPaper.png 16:32, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

THE BALL FISH HOW ARE THEY?
The puffer fish normally does not attack the player but when he approaches, to defend himself. These types of mobs do not seem to me passive but neutral. --93.36.190.102 17:57, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The pufferfish do not attack, nor do they become hostile. They have an aura-like effect that inflicts the status effect of poison on nearby players and certain mobs. Blue Banana whotookthisname (talk) 22:44, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Minecraft earth mobs variants
When are we creating pages for the Cow,Sheep,Pig,Chicken and Rabbits introduced in 0.17.0 –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.250.225.198 (talk) at 03:15, May 9, 2020 (UTC). Please sign your posts with
 * Anyone with a registered account can create pages. Just wait until someone with an account who feels they can create the page does it. It shouldn't be too long. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 03:21, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Piglins - Hostile or Neutral?
Should piglins be classified as hostile or neutral? If we're gonna categorize spiders as neutral, I think we should categorize piglins as neutral. There exists a state in which piglins are not aggressive to players, therefore, they are neutral. It's really no different from spiders. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 04:06, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I also think they should be classified as neutral, but in the interim, I've add a note to their section describing their behavior while wearing golden armor. QwrtyMan213 (talk) 23:21, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

dragonphase not needed in java edition
I summoned a few ender dragons in the snapshots and despite me not applying the dragonphase tag they still used standard dragon AI. Can someone see if this still occurs in both versions? 104.34.226.P124 04:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Are Pillagers neutral or hostile?
Technically speaking, there exists a state where a Pillager can be passive (once its crossbow breaks). However, it takes a long time for the crossbow to break, and the feature only exists on Java edition. 72.219.72.215 01:16, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * If there's only certain circumstances where it is neutral, then it it hostile (with exceptions detailed in the behavior section).  Nixinova   T   C   01:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

logic problem
In the mob classification the ravager is count as an illager but then in the last sentence of the paragraph it does not what to change?

"Almost all naturally-spawning mobs automatically despawn when they are 54 blocks or further away from the nearest players." ??
This sentence (in the "Despawning" section) conflicts with the information in the Despawning page and implies that they immediately despawn when 54 blocks away (which is false, at least for hostile mobs), and is confusing. I don't know the ins and outs of the game other than what I read on this wiki, so could somebody please correct it? Something like, "Almost all naturally-spawning mobs eventually despawn when they are x blocks or further from the nearest players, and immediately despawn when they are y blocks or further." Thanks. Katerine459-gpuser (talk) 16:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I've removed it and linked to Spawn instead, it looks like it was describing Bedrock Edition's mechanics but not Java's (where the despawn distance is larger, and most animals do not despawn). – Sonicwave talk  17:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks. :) This page did have one advantage over the Despawning page, though: unlike the Despawning page, this page was written in plain English. The Despawning page is extremely technical, and therefore could be very confusing to non-technical users (like young children). It would still be helpful to have a plain-English summary (with numbers of blocks, and a distinction between when they immediately despawn vs. when they eventually despawn, which is what people are typically looking for when they're searching for "Despawning") somewhere easy to find (or perhaps the solution is to have that plain-English summary in the Despawning page itself, above the technical details)? Katerine459-gpuser (talk) 15:04, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Taming
When the "Tameable Mobs" section was removed back in February 2020, it broke at least the Taming and Pet redirects. I feel there should be a page somewhere that describes the mechanics of taming (is there already one?), and those redirects should be fixed. Hv2 (talk) 03:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I was looking for a list of which mobs are tameable. A page describing the taming mechanics, if it existed, would be a good place for that. It looks like some of the tameable mobs at least describe how taming works on their individual pages, but without knowing what all of them are, I can't be sure if it's described on all of them. And the closest thing I could find to a list or a general description of taming redirected to a non-existent section of this page. Which, if we're going to have lists of mobs with other useful attributes, like whether they attack the player always, never, or conditionally, then whether or not we can tame, breed, or build them seems like a very natural extension of that. --71.45.74.221 19:09, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

A Utility Mob section would actually be useful.
The Iron Golems and Snow Golems have been called utility mobs over and over again, but there isn't anything that explains or defines what a utility mob is. The link simply just goes to the Mob page. People over time keep removing that iron golems are utility mobs, but those edits get reverted back, meaning there is a use for calling these mobs utility mobs. If we call them utility mobs in the first place, why can't we get a Utility Mob section? It may have already existed and the section got removed, but I just don't understand why we use the term "Utility Mob" but don't have anything to explain what they are. I know what they are, because of the Minecraft Books I own, it just seems useful to have it. Any thoughts? Blockofnetherite Talk Contributions 01:50, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , the Iron Golem is neutral (villagers) (strangers) and passive (player made) and hostile (popularity -15?) meaning it would be neutral but like it more classifies utility as it can be player made (also wither but thats clearly a boss) and for snow golems, they are hostile towards enemies (not creepers) but do no damage. They are passive towards everything else (check if they are neutral to some mobs?) so .---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 02:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Intresting note, the Snow Golem is not even mentioned in this page.....---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 02:35, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * – it's another term that was invented on the wiki and not defined in the game itself, and may be confusing to people not already familiar with this term. For example, horses, llamas, pigs, and striders can be "used" as well (for riding or storing items), but are not included in the category. I'd prefer to remove the term from articles instead of introducing it back onto this page. – Sonicwave talk  19:16, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , what about water based mobs? When was that term invented, its also very broad, It says they do not drown except dolphins and suffocate outside of water except 3 mobs (elder) guaridans, and turtles. Also it says that they can swim but this also applies to drowned.---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 19:19, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The bug (as a source) and it's comments say nothing about water based mobs, it just says that becuase drowned live in water, they should be........... Turtles can also spawn in beach biomes so why does this category even exist, if it does, add utility mobs, if it does not, remove that category and utility mobs from their respective pages.(but still say that they live in water).---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 19:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * the 2 comments above refer to the "classification" section.---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 19:35, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * While I agree that the definition of water mobs might seem confusing, it's an in-game distinction that determines which mobs are affected by the Impaling enchantment and not damaged by pufferfish. – Sonicwave talk  19:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * In and Combat Tests, this is no longer the case. Also, are drowned affected by pufferfish? if they are not, this category should be removed.---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 20:49, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Drowned do take damage from pufferfish. I think having the water category is better for consistency with the arthropod, undead and illager categories (which are also in-code distinctions in Java Edition, not sure about Bedrock), though I don't have strong objections to removing it, especially if Impaling gets changed on Java. – Sonicwave talk  05:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Review, and plan for how the section should be made.
Reasons: My proposal is to add it as a subsection of the "Classification" section, where undead mobs, arthropod mobs, etc. go. Any thoughts? Blockofnetherite Talk Contributions 16:42, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * : The Iron Golem, Snow Golem, and Golem page call them utility mobs, but nothing on this wiki defines what they are.
 * 1)  utility mobs are a community-made category that isn't specifically defined in the game itself
 * Utility Mob redirects to this page but theres no info about it, also snow golems are not mentioned so this idea.---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 19:00, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Should the "Tommo" tomato mob be added to unimplemented
It has been created by Minecraft devs, only to showcase the market, but it still was an official mob. – Preceding unsigned comment was added by Animeluver88 (talk • contribs) at 03:26, 16 October 2020 (UTC). Please sign your posts with


 * it was created to show off the new behavior pack features that will be implemented in 1.17, its not a mob that will be officially added in 1.17 however. James Haydon (talk) 03:57, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Why are Drowned in both the Passive and Hostile sections?
No other mob is listed on this page twice. Having Drowneds in both the Passive and Hostile sections just looks ugly, and they should either be placed in only the hostile section with a note saying they become passive outside of water (like with the note for Pillagers) or in the neutral section. 72.219.72.215 17:32, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Okay i thought there was a note already there. James Haydon (talk) 17:36, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The problem is that Drowned has the note in the passive section, when it is primarily a hostile mob. Pillagers are also primarily hostile, but can be passive if their crossbows break, that note is in the hostile section, and Pillagers are rightfully only listed once: in the hostile section, and this should be applied to Drowneds as well. The only other mobs listed twice are those where the adult is neutral and the baby is hostile. 72.219.72.215 17:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay ill do it and see how people react. James Haydon (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

texture files
Should the texture file, (as in the raw png file) be added to the galleries of each mob? -Robonate135 (T C) 18:21, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I am in the process of uploading these actually. As for their placement, I'm not sure if the gallery would be a fitting place - I have a dedicated page for assets and their history planned though (need to get the proposal for it finished and up on the community portal first) - User-12316399 (talk) 18:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Shouldn't glow-squid & warden & Axolotl be added for the 'upcoming mobs section'
Since warden and glow-squid and axolotl are also planned for the caves and cliffs update (along with goat) shouldn't they all be in 'upcoming mobs'?--Minecraftdabest! (talk) 13:43, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yea but that is a violation of the MCW:FUTURE policy. James Haydon (talk) 16:44, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * All the other mobs except the warden have been in snapshots, unless there in snapshots we should not add them.--JudahPlayzGamingYT (talk) 22:57, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Exactly Judah, they will be added in snapshots but not in the full release. James Haydon (talk) 22:59, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Mobbo
Should we add in Mobbo from this vid? It would be added in the joke mobs if we did obviously. https://youtu.be/abs30d44yzg RobbyB3ll4s (talk) 23:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The joke mob section was made for mobs that were fully implemented into the game as an April Fools joke. Mobbo has never been in game and the video wasnt even published on april fools. James Haydon (talk)

Understandable. Maybe could fit somewhere else. RobbyB3ll4s (talk) 00:23, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Like what? A YouTube mobs section or something like that? James Haydon (talk) 00:45, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Add the Iceloger to the moobloom to discarded mobs
The moobloom and the Iceloger have already been replaced by the glow squid, please add them both to this area. RonnnyHD (talk) 21:03, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I would but im afraid it might get reverted. James Haydon (talk) 21:13, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The stream said they might be added later.--Olivia Capucine Elisabet (talk) 08:03, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Drowned and Baby Hoglin section change?
Should we make the Drowned Neutral, because it cannot be in both passive and hostile at the same time. It only attacks when not touching water during daytime, which is kinda neutral behaviour. Next, add Baby Hoglin to the Neutral list as it stops attacking the player for a while when attacked by the player or Piglin (Do Baby Hoglins attack Piglins, and if they do, do they run away after being attacked by them? (Also what about a 'Johnny' Vindicator? Do these rules apply here too?)) SileGdPro (talk) 19:30, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * To answer your questions,


 * 1) Yes, drowned should be neutral if piglins are neutral (they are more passive then piglins and the wiki says that if a mob has hostile and passive behaviors, it should be neutral.
 * 2) Yes, baby hoglins should be in neutral to be consistant to baby piglins and have hostile and passive (sorta) behavior
 * 3) Baby hoglins do NOT attack piglins, they are passive - in fact, adult hoglins do not attack adult piglins unless attacked first. Hoglins spawned in bastions NEVER get attacked by piglins.
 * 4) This article is about the hostility of the mob to the player so johnny vindicators should just be ignored and not treated as a seperate mob in this article.
 * Hope this answered your questions.Humiebeetalk contribs 01:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Axolotl
The 20w51a snapshot introduced the axolotl, could you guys add it to the upcoming mobs along with goat? 177.188.213.197 17:59, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Mini boss
Aren't Warden and Elder guardian a mini boss? because the are chalegging and gives you achivements.... Sebstian 7227 (talk • contribs) at 09:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC).
 * The warden is not released yet and they are not mini-bosses. The Great Spring (talk | contribs) (Tagalog translation) 02:54, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Warden
I wish the warden enter Minecraft.... Sebstian 7227 (talk • contribs) at 09:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC).
 * Me too. they are going to release in the update. No snapshot. We will have to wait till the middle of 2021. So I've heard at least... :( 73.89.66.98 10:39, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Don't spread misinformation, all features are going to be tested in snapshots first to find and fix bugs, and gather feedback. That's how it always has been. The end of development cycles is for optimization and fixes, nothing else, no additions. Dhranios (talk) (Join the wiki videos project!) 10:41, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ok. Sorry, I've heard wrong then. oops. Sorry. 73.89.66.98 10:50, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

History Section
Should there be a history section? There is one for blocks and one for items so i don't see how you can't do the same for mobs, it is not that important, but it would be nice to see – Unsigned comment added by UltraCatalyst007 (talk • contribs) at 19:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC). Sign comments with
 * Im about this, but i will ask some others to see if this is okay. James Haydon (talk) 19:33, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * . It would be consistent with the block and item pages, and would be pretty useful to have. AlienAgent124 (talk) 16:37, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay has already made plans to add it and they are testing such an idea in their sand box. James Haydon (talk) 17:08, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This has been completed by me and Dlljs and is now published. NoNcLaNKing (talk) 00:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Adding the Warden to this page
Since the Warden is a confirmed upcoming addition in 1.17, I really think it ought to be listed here. While it's not technically an "upcoming" mob by the definition of the style guide, since it isn't in a snapshot yet, keep in mind, this page also lists mobs that are not confirmed to be added at any known time, mobs that are confirmed to never be added anytime in the foreseeable future, mobs that have only been confirmed in the form of 2D concept art, and even the Red Dragon, a mob without even a single official image associated with it. Meanwhile, the Warden has appeared in numerous official screenshots and video clips, and is confirmed to be coming to the game within a known release window. It doesn't really make sense to me that it shouldn't be allowed to be listed here, when mobs that probably won't ever even be added can be listed here. There really ought to be some agreement reached in which there is a standard for documenting known upcoming mobs that are not yet in snapshots. AlienAgent124 (talk) 17:04, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * But it still has not appeared in any snapshot yet, therefore we need to wait before we add it. See MCW:FUTURE for more info. James Haydon (talk) 17:06, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I know what the style guide says, but the issue is that MCW:FUTURE only takes into account features that are in development versions, and says to exclude known confirmed features that are not yet in development versions. My opinion is that confirmed features not yet in development versions should also be listed here as well, but under a different label, such as "planned". Otherwise, under the current system, known confirmed information is being neglected, while information about content that is not confirmed to ever be added is not. AlienAgent124 (talk) 17:16, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * If you want a rule in the style guide to be changed to something you agree with, then you should post said request in the Style guide's talk page. James Haydon (talk) 17:18, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I this, it could just stay in mentioned mobs until it gets a snapshot, then it could move to upcoming mobs until caves and cliffs releases UltraCatalyst007 (talk) 17:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay but the snapshots with the warden will come eventually, you don't have to wait until its release to see them. So lets just wait until said snapshot is released. James Haydon (talk) 18:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * What happens when more future mobs are announced though? This same problem will happen again, with announced mobs not being listed because they're not in snapshots yet, even while mentioned and scrapped mobs do get to be listed. This isn't just about the Warden specifically, it's about the rules regarding which mobs are allowed to be mentioned here. AlienAgent124 (talk) 18:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Because most of the mentioned mobs are most likely not going to be added unlike the Warden. James Haydon (talk) 18:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * But that's exactly my point. If mobs unlikely to be added can be on the list of mobs, why can't mobs that are definitely going to be added soon? AlienAgent124 (talk) 18:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it could go to the Mentioned mobs category, because as AlienAgent124 said above, mobs that aren't included on the game are there, redirecting to the Mentioned features articles. Thejoaqui777 (talk) 23:08, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * See the MCT:Style guide discussion for a main discussion related to this change. Thejoaqui777 (talk) 20:58, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Possible Category Changes (and also discussion about the Pufferfish)
The Pufferfish have a problem. First, they do NOT belong in Passive, they attack you if you get close to them like any hostile mob, however, they are not hostile, technically they COULD be hostile, but... no, they fit best in neutral, but even that does not seem right. Personally I think Pufferfish should get their own category, Like Defensive or something. And it not just the Pufferfish, There just seems to be a problem with the categories in general, Just as a quick list of the things i would change (if i knew how to edit pages with images).


 * PASSIVE: add the Glow Squid, I just think the upcoming category should just be removed, if something gets a snapshot, it is very much in the game and available to everyone. And a minor thing, swap strider and squid, it would look better.


 * DEFENSIVE: I already explained why pufferfish should be here.


 * NEUTRAL: If Upcoming was removed, goat goes here, swap piglin and panda for alphabetical reason, and remove baby mobs, they are 1 mob, piglins are the same as baby piglins, there are not baby zombies seperated from zombies, so make it consistant.


 * HOSTILE: No real problems, just change the order for the zoglin, zombie, and zombie villager to zombie villager, zombie, and zoglin.


 * COMPOUND/COMBINATION ETC.: Jockeys are in included in the list, but not all of them, they should have a seperate category for the cave spider jockey, chicken jockey, hoglin jockey, ravager rider, skeleton horseman, spider jockey, and strider jockey. Just name the category any word that means combination


 * TAMEABLE: This would include every mob that gives the player the advancement "Best Friends Forever" when tamed, this includes Axolotls(1.17), cats, donkeys, horses, llamas, mules, parrots, skeleton horses, trader llamas(llamas spawned with wandering trader, i count as different mob), and wolves. This does not apply to ocelots anymore, or foxes? im not sure about foxes though.


 * TRUSTABLE: Ocelots and Foxes.


 * UTILITY/GOLEMS: Not sure if this one would be good, but iron/snow golems could have seperate category.


 * CREATIVE ONLY: Zombie Horses have spawn eggs in creative, so not unused.


 * COMMANDS ONLY: This would include the other unused mobs, also swap illusioner and killer bunny for alphabetical reason, and add the elder guardian ghost, they are also unused/command only.


 * JOKE MOBS: Alphebetize them and change pink wither to friendly wither.


 * UNIMPLEMENTED: Combine with mentioned mobs and move pigman here because they where never available to the public unlike rana and human

etc.

Overall, Categories for this page are broken and need to be fixed.UltraCatalyst007 (talk) 07:44, 7 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Pufferfish are passive, not neutral or hostile. Hostile means that they can chase you, while pufferfish can't chase you. Their attacks are defensive. TheGreatSpring (talk) 08:05, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Well there is no such thing as a "defensive" mob, i think it should be referred to as a neutral mob. James Haydon (talk) 20:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that we need to settle this to decide how we need to categorize mobs. I like the idea of defensive, trustable and tameable, but their behaviors are still either passive or neutral, so we shouldn't be changing that. However, Some changes are needed, so I'll list how mobs could be classified:


 * Proposal 1:


 * Passive: Mobs that never attack the player, nor cause damage intentionally (Pufferfish never attacks, but activates a poison aura).


 * Neutral: Mobs that attack the player if they attack first, or the player doesn't meet the requirements to avoid being attacked by these mobs, leading to the first line (this one) be the requirement to being attacked. (For example, piglins attack even if a player has gold armor when attacked, or spiders attack even at high light levels when attacked).


 * Hostile: Mobs that always attack the player intentionally, hunting it, even if there are ways to make them to not attack the player. (For example, hoglins always want to attack the player, but don't do that when near warped fungus or nether portals).


 * Boss mobs: Mobs that have a visual health bar, don't spawn randomly and are confronted intentionally.


 * Compound mobs: Compund mobs that consist of a mob riding another mob.


 * Unused mobs: Mobs that don't spawn naturally but can be found on the Creative menu or be summoned with the command.


 * Joke mobs: Mobs that only existed on April Fools versions.


 * Implemented upcoming mobs: Mobs that aren't on a full release, but are confirmed to be added and exist on the latest snapshot/beta at the time.


 * Unimplemented upcoming mobs: Mobs that doesn't exist on a full release, nor on a snapshot/beta, but are mentioned and confirmed to be added. Their links redirect to the Mentioned features articles. (It's the current "Mentioned mobs", but without the Moobloom and the Iceologer, and the Warden could go here too)


 * Concept mobs: Mobs that only existed as concepts, but never were implemented nor fully announced. (I's the current "Unimplemented mobs" renamed to be more precise, also including the Moobloom and Iceologer, as they were concepts too)


 * Removed mobs: Mobs that no longer exist in current versions of the game.


 * Education Edition mobs: Mobs that only exist on Education Edition.


 * Proposal 2:


 * Passive: Mobs that never attack the player, nor cause damage intentionally (Pufferfish never attacks, but activates a poison aura).


 * Neutral: Mobs that attack the player if they attack first, or the player doesn't meet the requirements to avoid being attacked by these mobs, leading to the first line (this one) be the requirement to being attacked. (For example, piglins attack even if a player has gold armor when attacked, or spiders attack even at high light levels when attacked).


 * Hostile: Mobs that always attack the player intentionally, hunting it, even if there are ways to make them to not attack the player. (For example, hoglins always want to attack the player, but don't do that when near warped fungus or nether portals).


 * Boss mobs: Mobs that have a visual health bar, don't spawn randomly and are confronted intentionally.


 * Compound mobs: Compund mobs that consist of a mob riding another mob.


 * Unused mobs: Mobs that don't spawn naturally but can be found on the Creative menu or be summoned with the command.


 * Joke mobs: Mobs that only existed on April Fools versions.


 * Planned mobs: Mobs that doesn't exist on a full release, nor on a snapshot/beta, but are mentioned and confirmed to be added. Their links redirect to the Mentioned features articles. (It's the current "Mentioned mobs", but without the Moobloom and the Iceologer, and the Warden could go here too)


 * Concept mobs: Mobs that only existed as concepts, but never were implemented nor fully announced. (I's the current "Unimplemented mobs" renamed to be more precise, also including the Moobloom and Iceologer, as they were concepts too)


 * Removed mobs: Mobs that no longer exist in current versions of the game.


 * Education Edition mobs: Mobs that only exist on Education Edition.


 * As you see, we don't need Tameable, deffensive or trustable, nor utility. Also I splitted "Upcoming mobs" on the first proposal to be more specific and not cause any confussion. I added a second proposal to decide which is better, and on the second proposal the mobs that are on development versions go to their final category with an upcoming template. Thejoaqui777 (talk) 03:34, 8 February 2021 (UTC)


 * There has been a prior decision against proliferation of categories, which is why I'm against your suggestion. Having too many categories makes the system needlessly unclear.


 * I'm especially against "compound mobs". They are two (or multiple) mobs, and should not be included in a list of (single) mobs. That's like saying a group of people is a hair color.


 * Other than that, categories should be exclusive. A mob should not fit multiple categories, so because e.g. "trustable mobs" are also passive, trustable must either not exist or be a subcategory of passive. For this reason, "utility mobs" can't exist, because it has both neutral and passive mobs in it, and cannot be a subcategory of both.


 * Regarding the pufferfish, I have made my views regarding whether pufferfish attack clear before on this page. Your only reason to object to them being hostile is that it does not feel correct to classify them as such, but I don't see that as a valid reason. Furthermore, you claim to have explained why pufferfish should be defensive, but you have in fact not done so, because you have not explained why they should not be neutral: a neutral mob is by definition one that is neither passive nor hostile; you claim pufferfish are not passive and not hostile; thus, they would be neutral. Blue Banana whotookthisname (talk) 17:46, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes exactly, they only attack when you approach them to defend themselves, not to hurt you, therefore they are a neutral mob. Passive mobs cant damage you in any way, and hostile mobs will follow you and attempt to attack you repeatedly. James Haydon (talk) 18:05, 10 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I understand, we need to reclassify the list making it clearer but not full of many categories. Also, the reasoning of why pufferfish are passive is that they never attack the player (this means, chase it to perform an attack). They activate a poison cloud near players, but never perform an actual attack. That's why we discussed that on Talk:Pufferfish. We didn't get a clear concensus, but I think that they are passive because they don't chase you. Also, on another perspective, in real life an animal may not be agressive but can damage you unintentionally because its skin can have poisonous toxins. That's why they are passive.


 * Now, about categories, I completely agree with compound mobs. We need to get rid of these on the list, as they are unnecesary. I'll show you another proposal, now updated to fit a shorter categorization.


 * Proposal 3:


 * Passive: Mobs that never attack the player, nor cause damage intentionally (Pufferfish never attacks, but activates a poison aura).


 * Neutral: Mobs that attack the player if they attack first, or the player doesn't meet the requirements to avoid being attacked by these mobs, leading to the first line (this one) be the requirement to being attacked. (For example, piglins attack even if a player has gold armor when attacked, or spiders attack even at high light levels when attacked).


 * Hostile: Mobs that always attack the player intentionally, hunting it, even if there are ways to make them to not attack the player. (For example, hoglins always want to attack the player, but don't do that when near warped fungus or nether portals).


 * Boss mobs: Mobs that have a visual health bar, don't spawn randomly and are confronted intentionally.


 * Joke mobs: Mobs that only existed on April Fools versions.


 * Planned mobs: Mobs that doesn't exist on a full release, nor on a snapshot/beta, but are mentioned and confirmed to be added. Their links redirect to the Mentioned features articles. (It's the current "Mentioned mobs", but without the Moobloom and the Iceologer, and the Warden could go here too)


 * Concept mobs: Mobs that only existed as concepts, but never were implemented nor fully announced. (I's the current "Unimplemented mobs" renamed to be more precise, also including the Moobloom and Iceologer, as they were concepts too)


 * Removed mobs: Mobs that no longer exist in current versions of the game.


 * Education Edition mobs: Mobs that only exist on Education Edition.


 * Note: Currently upcoming mobs that are implemented either on a snapshot or beta now would go to their final category, marked with an Upcoming mark.
 * Note 2: Unused mobs just waste space. They do exist and can be summoned with the . That they don't spawn naturally doesn't mean that they should be separated from the others.


 * Finally I made a concise and understandable list. I think that this third proposal will fit perfectly how mobs should be categorized. Thejoaqui777 (talk) 15:21, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Mobs in 1.17
Hey why are we adding Glow Squids, Axolotl, and Goats? If were adding them, then why not add the Warden to the list. It was showcased in Minecraft Live 2020. Witherbeam (talk) 22:57, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , the Warden is not in dev snapshots yet. Look at the style guide for more info.Humiebeetalk contribs 22:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Size Comparison
I think there should be a picture of a size comparison on the page showing the sizes of the mobs in Minecraft, either via hitboxes or visual size Mikail the lizard 16:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

No shulker in history section
I looked at the history, but there's no 1.9--86.136.184.199 14:04, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I added that section there. James Haydon (talk) 14:21, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Split Hostile Mobs and Compound Mobs?
Currently, compound mobs are listed under the hostile mob category. There are a few reasons why I think it might be better to list them separately in their own category underneath:

1: Compound mobs are each two mobs together, rather than one, which makes them fundamentally different from other mob types.

2: While the rider in each of the naturally generated compound mobs is hostile, in only 1 of these 4 cases is the ridden mob hostile, and in the other 3 cases it’s either passive or neutral, and so doesn’t really belong in the hostile mobs category.

3: Because a compound mob is made up of two other mobs, at least one of which is also a hostile mob, each hostile mob which is part of a compound mob ends up getting listed twice within the same category.

4: Since all of the compound mobs have similar looking icons with half of one mob’s face and half of another’s, they’d look better if they were all next to each other. AlienAgent124 (talk) 02:18, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Spawning
It mentions that "Most mobs never spawn on transparent blocks, in water (except fish, dolphins, turtles, and other aquatic creatures), in lava (except for striders), on bedrock, or on blocks less than a full block tall (such as slabs placed on the bottom half). The exception is monster spawners, from which monsters can spawn naturally on any block including air."

This is something that needs to be massively expanded. I'm sure 10 year veterans have no difficulty with this, but relatively new players (like me) find this uselessly vague. What exactly is the full list of blocks that guarantees that they do not spawn? GMRE (talk) 18:28, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Illusioner
Will the illusioner have a spawn egg and be in the next updates of Java and bedrock editions? – Unsigned comment added by Zachbarbo (talk • contribs) at 16:56, 29 April 2021 (UTC). Sign comments with
 * Maybe 105.184.81.27 16:58, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Zombie Horse
Will zombie horses be in survival mode in the next updates of Java and bedrock editions? – Unsigned comment added by Zachbarbo (talk • contribs) at 17:16, 29 April 2021 (UTC). Sign comments with
 * Maybe 105.184.81.27 17:20, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

The herobrine glitch
Today i was playing a minecraft server but a huge chunk of mining class was gone repeatedly 3 times then it didn't teleport me i was stuck and then there was 1x1 tunnels next everyone froze but i can do everything illegal break block i not supposed to. I left the server and never play it again. – Unsigned comment added by 172.58.187.199 (talk) at 07:36, 17 May 2021 (UTC). Sign comments with
 * I don't think it's a "Herobrine" glitch, a huge chunk is missing, everyone is frozen, can do everything illegal like breaking blocks you're not supposed to, it's a lag, normal glitch. Maybe your internet or the server is lagging. NexaForX (𝓣𝓪𝓵𝓴 ''' 00:48, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Warden
Can as separate page be made for the warden? Currently it Redirects you to Caves and Cliffs. 69.160.255.183 18:19, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Not until it gets added in a development version of the game. An article does exist, but it has a redirect on it. The redirect will be removed if it ever gets added. James Haydon (talk) 18:20, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Drop Rates
Most mobs have a "Drops" section in their respective pages, however this section is not very useful when it comes to figuring out the drop rates per mob. For example, the fact that guardians drop 0-2 prismarine shards doesn't imply the number of shards the guardian will drop on average. I would suggest adding a table to each "Drops" section (unless there are no drops) with columns for each level of looting including no looting and rows for each drop type, with each entry in the table corresponding to the average number of that drop per mob. Note that this suggestion would have no effect on this page, but I thought this was the best place to suggest it since it would effect most mob's respective pages.--Smugless (talk) 06:13, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Illusioners are exclusive to Java Edition
This page lists illusioners in the illager classification, however, it does not say that they are exclusive to Java Edition.--136.36.85.214 19:38, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Question on the unimplemented mobs
So there are some mobs listed in unimplemented mobs which are mentioned features. I noticed not all of them are on the list (Soul Fire Blazes, tree animals, and the Pigman Bodyguard.) Is there a criteria for the list or were they just overlooked? I'm pretty sure Herobrine was mentioned by Jeb as being a far future possibility. If Hamsters are on there which were more of a jest, then shouldn't he be on there too? Yekulten (talk) 20:24, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Upcoming mob!
Minecraft just made a new video, and currently, we know "The Glare" is coming for Minecraft's 1.18 mob vote! – Unsigned comment added by Dragonlord187 (talk • contribs) at 15:35, 11 October 2021 (UTC). Sign comments with

The China Edition 'Mob Vote'
In the Mob Vote section, the page reads:

"Before the second vote, the China Edition also had a mob vote, the winner of which was the Panda."

I believe that this is inaccurate, and that mistranslation has lead to a misunderstanding of what the poll in question was about.

Rather than a "mob vote" (which I would understand to mean a vote as to which mob to add to the game) it seems it was more a popularity poll to hype Chinese players up for the addition of Pandas, something along the lines of 'A national treasure is getting added to Minecraft! Which would you choose!?'. As such I don't believe that the information regarding the Chinese poll belongs on this page.

The tweet is now missing, but apparently Aubrey Norris, then Minecraft community manager, denied that pandas were added due to the poll:

"According to Aubrey Norris, this vote did not cause the Panda to be added. So now I wonder about the significance of the vote.

https://twitter.com/Chupacaubrey/status/1047338541728948224 "

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZkuL2lavYs&lc=Ugwaa5wUKnfhDypzkCJ4AaABAg

Backing this up is this YouTube Commenter claiming that the page for the poll had been mistranslated, and supplying their own translation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZkuL2lavYs&lc=Ugwaa5wUKnfhDypzkCJ4AaABAg.8lvm97nvubZ8lwGaDk8tB3

I have some question?
All mobs can be attacked and hurt (from falling, attacked by a player or another mob, falling into the void, hit by an arrow, etc), and have some form of voluntary movement. This is how the wiki say. But is not true for giant. It just stands still and not do anything. It's have the same AI as armor stand. So why giant is considered a mob while armor stand is not? Player can be attack, hurt, move and have AI, so why player is not a mob? -Brain180-talk/contr
 * Does Giant is a mob?
 * Why player is not considered a mob?


 * "Mob" simply means "mobile entity". Giants are mobile. They can move when they respond to damage. Mobs are controlled by the game. Players are not. Amatulic (talk) 19:33, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Jockeys are not considered mobs
Chicken Jockeys, Spider Jockeys, Skeleton Horsemen and Killer Bunnys are listed on the hostile section of this page even though they are not mobs (no unique id or entity) but rather in-game phenomenons, so I'd like to remove the links (which can be accessed from the respective mob's page) since they actively mislead players into thinking them to be unique mobs... Uniimog (talk) 19:10 13 May 2022 (CEST)
 * It was proposed above in to move them to a separate section, which I'd still agree with. It is worth briefly mentioning the occurrence and behavior of jockeys as they spawn naturally, but they should not be treated like separate mobs as they are currently. – Sonicwave  talk  04:30, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually I don't think that'd be necessary since the links can already be found on the Mobs' Pages.. Still I'd be fine to change it that way but, according to this logic wouldn't we need entries for Hoglin Jockeys, Ravager Jockeys, and Strider Jockeys, and basically every Mob from Bedrock (for Babie Zombie Riders) as well? Uniimog (talk) 12:11 14 May 2022 (CEST)

Mob icon innovation
DISCLAIMER: This conversation was originally discussed at the Dolphin's Face's talk page. It has been recommended by an admin that the topic would be explained here as well. Please read with an open mind and give suggestions. Only constructive criticism please.

The Dolphin mob in Minecraft is composed of 8 primary cubes and 7 primary bones. 1 of those bones is tagged with the name "body". In this bone there is included the cube to which the Dolphin's face is textured on (aka it's head) and the ending of the Dolphin's torso. The tail is a completely separate bone and cube so judging by the real model it is safe to say that the Dolphin's head is much larger than the current face icon and that the current design does not do it any justice. Although the real head has been proven to be oversized for the mob faces in the page Mob, it does not mean that we should "improvise" to much on the design choice. Things like the Witch's hat, the Hoglin's hair, half of the Goat's beard, the list goes on. I am surprised at how the Warden's ears were (fankfully) included. So I propose a better system that might be extremely controversial but I think it might be worth trying. Now yes I know I should write this on the Mob talk page however I started writing here so just deal with it. I propose we instead of doing 2d faces that only fit one size in a small grid of images, we should instead use 3d pre-rendered isometric renders of only the mob's head. I think this will not only look better but also work extremely well no matter the size the renders will never look weird or out of "pixel size". I have here some examples of this:



Of course the heads are not all the same size here but that is just for demonstration purposes. What do you people think? Is it a good idea? Should it be used or scrapped? Thank you. Witheremperor2006 (talk) 00:12, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Loved this idea, in my opinion they are much better looking and will even be consistent with pages like Blocks, which also use 3d pre-rendered isometric renders. Rogerio980Pizzaa (talk) 18:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I also support your proposed innovation. Though I do believe that the mob icons should all be the same size before you enact your proposal. Despite support your proposed innovation, I will remain firmly in opposition to you enacting your proposal, at least until the mob icons are all the same size. Drour1234 (talk) 19:45, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * They are supposed to be the exact same size. The images above are just for demonstration purposes. The size matter was about pixels in 2d icons. But they will all fit in a balanced grid. Thank you for the suggestions though. Witheremperor2006 (talk) 19:48, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * In that case, as long as you do not make a mistake when you enact your proposed innovation, I will support it. Drour1234 (talk) 19:52, 5 October 2022 (UTC)