Talk:Bedrock Edition Far Lands/Archive 2

Corner Far Lands
--[User:Parameciumkid|Parameciumkid] 23:32, 4 April 2011 (EDT) I've added a short description of the Far Lands terrain at the "corners", but as I do not have the permissions to upload a file I need somebody to either insert my screenshot (http://helia.net63.net/mass_storage/Clipboard04.jpg) or one of their own.
 * Completely fleshed out Corner Far Lands description. --Ozzatron 00:42, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Page expansion
This page needs a few additions. I hope to add pictures soon, but the more of you contribute the better, really. More information and anything else you can grab. There's always what the Far Lands used to look like during infdev. I started playing Minecraft during Alpha, so I wouldn't know.

--GmMkr 19:51, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been doing some research by using Single Player Commands to get farther in the map, and switching to vanilla to make sure it's correct information. I've added a screenshot, and will add more information soon. [[File:Tjb0607SigIcon.png]] 02:47, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I love what this page has become. Thanks. Can you post which level editor you used? --Jonnay 01:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I used Single Player Commands, which is a mod that allows in-game inventory editing, a /tele command, which was very useful for getting deep into the Far Lands and finding the right coordinates, worldedit, and much more. (It's a mod so it's not supported by notch, mojang, the minecraft forums, etc.) [[File:Tjb0607SigIcon.png]] 00:13, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like to second Jonnay on this. This page didn't exist last month and now it's fleshed out and full of explanation.  Good job to all the contributors. Jaeil 03:10, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Relative real world distances
I'm not sure who switched the size to 31% the size of the circumference of the Earth, but I'd like to know where you got your information. According to Notch, it's different, so now I'm just curious. --GmMkr 23:13, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem was the confusion between the chunk overwrite line and the beginning of the Far Lands. The chunks begin to overwrite at a distance about 25% of the distance between the Earth and the Sun. The Far Lands start much, much sooner, and the distance to them is about 31% of the circumference of the Earth (which is roughly 40,000,000 meters). Comparatively, the Far Lands start at 0.008% of the distance between the Earth and the Sun. Ozzatron 23:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for clearing that up! --GmMkr 22:14, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Possible explanation for extreme lag
I've explored the Far Lands quite a bit and found out that there are hundreds of gravel items on each block at the bottom of the sea. I wonder if that's just the case for me or if it's the reason for the enormous lag when getting close to the Far Lands. It would also explain why the lag stops when you're there for some time. (5 minutes in theory, but more when actually playing due to the low frame rate) Defmenge 16:20, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, that's it. You can solve this using the /drops command in SPC or by using the /killall periodically

I think it also has to do with the fact that by walking farther away, you essentially "stretch" out the map, causing it to load more things. 98.195.169.117 02:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC) anonymous

Far Lands to Nether?
Just asking, what happens if the player goes from an area near or in the Far Lands on Earth to the Nether? Also, what happens if the player goes from the Far Lands in the Nether to Earth. Now that I think of it, this might just let players get deeper into the Far Lands.Combak 20:14, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Due to the 8x compression factor, going from the "real" Far Lands into the Nether wouldn't do anything interesting unless you were very far out, actually beyond the 32,000,000 mark. Anywhere in the Far Lands in the Nether would put you at LEAST 100,000,000 blocks out, so even if Minecraft doesn't crash you'll fall into the Void. --Ozzatron 23:39, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * On the subject of nether, does its far lands start and eight of the distance from earths far lands? Toadbert
 * No, it starts at the same coordinates as in the regular world. [[File:Tjb0607SigIcon.png]] 20:55, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

If we make a train on the Nether en then go on the normal word, the far lands won't take 820 hour to go but "only" 15 hour Gadevoi 18:48, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No, you would still have to build all of the track. Plus, It would still take a very long time to get there regardless.

If you go to the nether near the farlands, I belive that you will be 3 times the distance from the center of the map to the far lands in. Although I'm probably wrong because my understanding of nether portal-traveling is small!

Edge of the world
Woudn't it be great that if you cross the far lands to the last block, it teleports you to the other edge of the map?

Disconnected Chunks
While playing SMP on the vanilla server, I noticed that there was a Loop chunk that wasn't part of the traditional wall. Unfortunately I saw the chunk in MCEdit while the server was running; MCEdit warns you to never have it and something else open simultaneously. I'm going to assume it was MCEdit causing something to mess up. Still, I want to know if this can be reproduced (obviously without MCEdit open). --Ozzatron 22:32, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Console in single player?
I have Minecraft Beta 1.7.3 on Mac and I press 'T' in single player and nothing happens. Multiplayer works perfectly fine. Do Windows users have the same problem? Ekevoo 01:41, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

There is no console in single-player. The page is talking about a mod that adds one. —KPReid 02:46, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

As of 1.3 single player is now run the same way as multiplayer, so you can now use console commands. Anonymous 8/14/12

About the Lag in the Far Lands
I find that if i use command 'killall' to remove all the entities from the map, the game runs much smoother(at least i don't have to wait 5 seconds for a move). so the lag may be caused by sand or gravel falling (because i have seen some gravel drops on the surface) or large amount of mobs spawning.

Qrox 01:23, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I found the same thing, and made an edit to the page that reflects this and the reasoning behind it. Daschnek 19:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Far lands in previous versions of Minecraft
I heard somewhere the the "phantom blocks" that show up after X/Z ±32,000,000 were caused by the Halloween Update. Is there any way to verify this? Exovian 02:10, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I downgraded to Beta 1.5 and they were there, however I did not downgrade far enough to know for sure. Search up "Minecraft Infdev" for the first ever appearance of the Far Lands. Replace the minecraft.jar file with the InfDev file by typing in the "Run" program %appdata%, going into the .minecraft/bin folder, then replacing the JAR. There you can find it yourself, I presume. 173.206.160.10 23:37, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Mods
Should there be information about the Far Lands in the Aether on this page? Don't the wiki rules say something about mods being in a subpage or something? ~ Halo Guru 07:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC) ~
 * The rules say that there should be no mod info on the pages. I've hid it. [[Image:TK.gif]]  | TheKax |   Talk   15:20, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

The 1.8 pre-release
By editing my level.dat, I have been able to confirm that the Far Lands as we know them do not generate in 1.8. The extreme lag and stuttering movement is present, but the terrain is still rather normal. Would anyone care to test this out, and edit the info into the article if I'm correct?

Daschnek 23:24, 10 September 2011 (UTC) Daschnek


 * I've just tested this as well and the farlands appeared to be a giant ocean, though I wasn't able to explore very meaningfully because my game was at 0-1 fps the whole time. There was no "swiss cheese" effect like pre-1.8 was. As soon as SPC works for 1.8 and entities can be turned off, the lack of lag could allow for better testing 207.6.73.187 04:47, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

AntVenom has made a video stating that the Far Lands in 1.8 are all ocean, which is inaccurate. It did take me a few tries to find land in the 1.8 "Far Lands", but there was some land. However, the land that generated was perfectly normal. It was no tiny island either, but a large forest with cave openings. Daschnek 18:06, 11 September 2011 (UTC) Daschnek True, Daschnek. It's more likely for there to be an ocean, but this does not always happen. 173.206.160.10 00:04, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Should we change this entire article to past tense, then? I'll go about it unless someone wants me not to. --Ozzatron 00:38, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I think we should wait for the full release of 1.8 before doing that. Also, I can guarantee that terrain generation will change somewhat between now and then (I don't think Notch intended to have infinite oceans, or the complete absence of Tundra.) Daschnek 01:27, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the double-post, but on an unrelated note, the tidbit about exiting a Nether portal into the overworld's Far Lands and crashing the game is false. This can be reproduced by dividing 12550820 by 8, and opening a portal at the dividend in the Nether and traveling through. I'd like the result reproduced in 1.7 and 1.8 so that the wiki can be edited appropriately. Daschnek 01:36, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Why the heck did notch remeve the far lands in the first place? It was an epic place and now it just makes getting there pointless. Someone should start a group of angry memebers to get the the far lands back.

It just sucks that he fixed the stuttery movement but took out the epic terrain. Also, has anyone tried the Far Lands in the 1.8 Nether? I'm pretty sure Notch didn't touch the Nether. There may still be some Far Lands there. I'll test it out. Edit: The Nether Far Lands are gone as well. Another Edit: It should also be noted that some time after 30,000,000 the game stops writing chunks altogether, and the player is stuck in a glitched position like the old InfDev versions. Final Edit (I hope): "As of the 1.8 pre-release" can be changed to "As of version 1.8". All my new info has come from 1.8 full release. Daschnek 00:46, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think the Far Lands' "removal" was intentional. Their previous appearance was a result of the old terrain generation code and how it behaved when various values started overflowing. New code, new appearance. If anything, you should welcome this change, since it suggests that the terrain generation code is much more stable and robust then it was in 1.7 and before. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 07:16, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

It seems as though it certainly was "fixed", and there was some intention. He would not have changed the hard limit or removed the movement stuttering if the fix wasn't intentional. Also, the edit under "Death" is inaccurate, it should be removed.

Out of sheer interest, if you spawned at the Far Lands, generated all four edge chunks and every other chunk related to the Far Lands, then spawned back to your spawn point and updated the game, would the Far Lands still be there? If they do, this could be a workaround to them being removed. Sure, it would be a hefty time consumer, but it would be worth it in the end.

It was fixed i guess.. I've been testing it and once you get to around 30,000,000 (not exactly), it ends. There is the big ocean, then about 5 chunks from the end of it the lighting stops working. 2 chunks from the end the player gets stuck and stutters.. so there is a end now. MCEdit also screws up like it did in the Far Lands it 1.7 and before. Also that is an interesting idea above.

1.8 Far Lands?
Is it true that in 1.8 the Far Lands no longer exist? I downloaded 1.8 today. freeman2001 21:52, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Did you read the section directly above this one? Daschnek 00:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

i'm sad to say that they are gone R.I.P Far Lands --Thatssss a very nice ssssignauture you have there SSSSSSSssssss, Signed Wildfire 00:03, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

All this talk
about farlands being removed at 12,550,821 interests me, has anyone tried any going further yet- i heard a wild rumour that after 32mil the game stops generating, is this still true? I'd be really nice if some people could try it and add pictures, if possible. I'd try it myself, but im horrible with SP mods.--Neil2250 22:15, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * All chunks past 32mil prior to 1.8 are fake. As in, they are non-physical. -- { Fishrock123 } (Talk) 14:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * So what your saying is chunks after 1.8 arnt fake?, sorry, i found your comment hard to read for some reason D: --Neil2250 21:42, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Before 1.8, chunks generated past the 32 million mark were visible, but they were all non-solid and you would just fall through them. I've heard that now in 1.8, at the 32 million mark, no blocks even generates, the world just ends. --HexZyle 03:41, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Kurtjmac
A anon editor removed a well referenced section about Kurtjmac from the wiki, the only reason being "I hate advertising on wikis". Is this a legitimate reason, and was the section really advertising? --HexZyle 11:39, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I dont think its really advertising, its just prooving that it is possible to walk to the farlands. I say re-add. --Neil2250 21:42, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well whenever i think "Far Lands" I then think "Kurtjmac". He is kind of like a minecraft icon (like the Yogscast team and that other dude that did those music videos) But does this really belong on the page though? :S I mean, do other people care, is what I'm getting to. --HexZyle 03:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Never really heard of him; name doesn't ring any major bells. So, yeah, it'd be okay to leave it off the page. Jaeil 03:17, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's strange that you haven't heard of him, Jaeil....he's got his own youtube let's play series and everything...oh well. --HexZyle 04:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * , because he is the only person (notice the 'only') that walks to the farlands in vanilla minecraft. It is too special not to mention, i think we should mention the most important people on the wiki, but we should have guidelines for that.
 * Swpe 14:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * A guideline for adding famous minecraft non-mojang staff! Good idea! --HexZyle 00:40, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's already covered by Wiki Rule 6. We are here to document the game, not the community, so no. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  08:07, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I must say: the rules does indeed say it is not allowed. I still think we should keep it, at least somewhere. Im going to try setting up a User: page where I am going to list such special people. Although I would rather keep it on this page. Swpe 15:21, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * But wait! The rule says about a WHOLE PAGE to users, there is no rule about mentioning remarkable individuals –Preceding unsigned comment was added by Gil2455526 (Talk&#124;Contribs) . Please sign your posts with
 * No, dont try to glitch trough rules. Lets keep it just to this discussion for now.Swpe 16:05, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Well,someone has put it back up, but I don't really see how it is advertising. Basically it's just anonymous users, it's the same on Wikipedia. Colabcalub 12:27, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I knew this would crop up. I'd say it's worthwhile. It's interesting because it's starting to show how exactly the far lands evolve into a shit fest.--80.195.134.74 18:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Well if this is a draconian "No mentions of famous users EVER", then some articles need changing. Silverfish has the Yogscast and their name crops up in a few articles. Personally, I think that we should allow it since it would be too much work to hunt down and exterminate every reference on the wiki. Just let them pop up from time to time, but don't have it take up the entire article. –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.185.211.92 (Talk) 19:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC). Please sign your posts with


 * Just because other articles break the rules, doesn't mean it's justified here. Advertising and documenting the community are disallowed by rules 6, 10, and 11 (though note the subrules). If these mentions are found in other articles, it just means that they need to be removed from those articles, not that we can add them here. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:54, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I would say that, particularly after their removal , Kurtjmac is a hugely important part of the far lands legacy and Minecraft internet culture. It is an interesting and informative point. he is also the only person going these kinds of distances and is an important example of the vanilla effects. an anecdote, you would mention the Apollo missions on a page about the moon yes? –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.25.33.207 (Talk) 18:53, 2 January 2013 (UTC). Please sign your posts with


 * That is a completely different question from this. It doesn't matter the type of "legacy" Kurtjmac has created for the Far Lands, the rules are quite clear that articles on vanilla features of Minecraft do not discuss the fan community. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:40, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Far Lands in 1.9 Pre 4
I was playing the new 1.9 Prerelease 4 to see the end. After I was done I hacked in a portal block and when to the neather then back to the overworld. But I spawned in a giant ocean and my game was lagging a bit. Was this the far lands now?

Yep

The Far Lands' Corner: How does it work?
Now, about the Corner. I don't see any answers so I will ask the question: Why is it "normal"? I understand the Edge, it's glitching chunks. But why is the Corner stacked? They are much further out then the Edges, so surely they would glitch more then the Edge. We really need an answer to this. Colabcalub 12:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Traveling negative?
Can you travel negative coords to get to the Far Lands? I've traveled to x:-15545 in 1.0 and yes, I know Far Lands got accidentally removed but, will it still lag?Punch trees, get wood 03:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)


 * [[File:Edges.png]] from the main page will clear up your queries. --Neil2250 13:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

How long?
How long time does it take to travel to the Far lands, if you fly constantly withouth breaks? --84.211.0.120 20:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Unless I'm mistaken, flying is no faster than walking, in which case you travel roughly 4.27 blocks per second. Assuming you start from origin (X 0, Z 0), fly straight along one axis (doesn't matter which, so long as either X or Z never deviate from 0), and ignore any lag or the like, you have to travel exactly 12,550,820 meters to reach the Far Lands (one block is one cubic meter, so when you travel a distance of one block, you travel one meter). At 4.27 blocks per second, it takes roughly 2,939,302 seconds (48,988.37 minutes, or 816.47 hours, or a bit over 34 days) to go from origin to the beginning of the Far Lands. Obviously, no one's going to be able to do it without any breaks, not to mention it would end up incredibly dull before very long, since you wouldn't be doing anything but moving in a straight line. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe flying is as fast as sprinting (~5.6m/s); they have the same FOV change. That reduces the time needed to a mere 2,241,217 seconds (622.56 hours, just shy of 26 days). Assuming 9 chunks are generated on either side of the player, about 14,904,099 chunks will be produced, making the saved world approximately 62 gigabytes. -- Orthotope 07:15, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

What made people try to travel so long in the first place? --84.211.0.120 06:55, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * They didn't travel there. They most likely changed the spawn point to spawn near the Far Lands where it would be a short walking distance to the weird structures. Nevermind, they teleported there or significantly increased the walking/flying speed to probably 10x times+ the original speed if they walked/flew there. - Asterick6 22:43, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Update: Also, since you can use the Nether to travel farther in relation to the Overworld, I'm guessing some just entered the Nether and then traveled very fast and very far, then re-entered the Overworld. - Asterick6 23:01, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Dimensions
I noticed that this page was under the Dimensions category and I think that this should be fixed. --Lab44oss 16:33, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

1.2 Hard limit is different
it seems that the hard limit is different than before. At 30,000,000 it still generates fake chunks but then before it ever reaches the 32,000,000 "hard limit", the game decides to remove all chunks. Trying to fly into the fake chunks (per normal?) insta stalls your movement. You can no longer use mods to escape said stall (SPC will not open if you press T, for instance.) Teleporting past the cut off there will force your skin to always be steve, and instantly stall your client from all actions except vanilla actions. (movement is not possible, all mods cease to work?) Iyeru 20:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Stability in >1.8?
Just a matter of interest. I don't know if anyone will really know, but...

I was bored a while ago, and on a backup of 1.7.3 with SPC installed, went to the Far Lands. Today, I started up on 1.2.5, and wondered what the Far Lands would do (if it was different at all) in it if it was already generated. The weird thing is, in 1.7.3, it had the normal lag, but in 1.2.5, it ran at a stable framerate. It was lower than my usual FPS, but it was still playable.

If anyone can check, does this happen for them? --66.183.143.157 05:19, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

World limit in 1.2
After doing some experiments I found some interesting things. First, it seems like you can no longer move past exactly x/z 30,000,032. It also appears that teleporting there via mods will cause in glitching out and chunks will not load (img337.imageshack.us/img337/4159/notloadingq.png), taken further past x 30,000,032 but the effects are the same). Upon relogging in, the fake chunks will load up, but you still cannot move, and fake chunks will no longer be generated after x/z of about 30,000,060 (img21.imageshack.us/img21/8995/nochunk.png). Interesting. 71.197.145.124 18:30, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Added this info to the article.. --71.197.145.124 23:21, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

1.3
Is it possible to bypass the Illegal position error in 1.3? --71.197.145.124 23:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

what is there?
if minecraft went forever, wouldn't it be laggy, the minecraft world has to end sometime mabie it loops around--99.37.10.159 13:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I dont think it loops, but that is a good thing to add. Like the far lands would start to generate, then you would get to the hard limit and kind of teleported in a seamless way to the hard limit on the other side of the map.

Test 1.3 pre-release far lands
I am running the 1.3 pre-release, and i decided to take a look in the "far lands" and i've got some interesting stuff here: -You can bypass the entity limit (Was 30.000.032?) -Terrain stil generates after 30.000.064 blocks. -^ Terrain is still a noclip-area, no tree's or flowers/entities sighted (Not yet) -^ Biome classification still works, and the grass color is still based on what biome you're in at the moment. -^ I've seen more blocks! (sand, ice). -Extreme hills biome is awsome.. Jaellie 18:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Far Lands in 1.3.1
i went into far lands in 1.3.1 and basically you end up with phantom blocks adn simple world generation. a dirt floor ocean and i found a ravine but no ores or water or anything in it. down lower towards bedrock i found tubes completely filled with lava and no air. a few tiny islands but mostly ocean. that was at -300000000,88,0

at +300000000,88,0 i found more land, and it changed colour with the biomes, im currently in jungle hills but it has no jungle, desert is pretty basic, and i found rivers and ravines

0,88, +300000000 is just an ocean, but there is a dark line one block thick signalling the line at which the far land starts

at 0,88, -300000000 there is ocean again and i just noticed the ocean on normal side of the border is unlit, but in the farlands it is lit fully. there is no visible borderline though

very weird stuff indeed

edit by quackythduck :) hope it helps guys :D

Its still epic!
Well, i was messin, around with the cheats in 1.3.1 and i found out that it wouldent let me tp past 30000000 so i went there..and the water well, turend bright when i looked. like an invisable walls shadow. And when i walked there fake chucks generated! Lucky i was on creative, I flew up... and a cave! i had a blast crashing through non-solid caves! And in a cave near the farlands there was a sand glith so i mad an Epic Sand Maker!-24.62.109.70 15:26, 29 August 2012 (UTC) take that kurt

Crash Limit during Beta 1.5_01
I've downgraded Minecraft to a version that I never got to play and with Single Player commands I teleported to 4 blocks farther than 2,147,483,031. I could still keep on moving. The game did not crash, however these were serious rendering issues. Should this be included in this article? 99.224.177.66 01:15, 19 November 2012 (UTC) Edit: The game eventually crashed.

Are the Far Lands really "removed"?
They aren't as they were, but they obviously still exist in a form, and still show effects like fake chunks and all those glitches. -Donnaclus 18:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

1.5.1 does it weird
In 1.5.1, the Far Lands are messed up. Doing the tp function there gives normal chunks, (I think, I got ocean), but doing tp to "/tp 29999999 0 29999999" kills you. I fell downwards, and when the chunks above me loaded, it was just bedrock. Before that appeared, there was this really weird particle effect that was inexplicable. Anyone else experienced this? — Number  maniac  (C)  08:20, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I tried this as well, and I got the same result. Thought, I was quick enough to surface myself. The area has blocks that look real, but when interacted with, are non existent and the player easily phases through them. Water appears normal, until you submerge to see clearly through the water. At exactly z=30000000, I found a shadowy boundary, and beyond this point, all blocks look real, but when you approach them, there were no bounding boxes and you couldn't break or step on them. Void particle effects near and beyond the said boundary (z=30000000) appear in straight, vertical lines. — Just another player –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 120.28.127.179 (Talk) 17:28, 15 April 2013 (UTC). Please sign your posts with

Far Lands: Are they really gone?
No.

They're not gone. The only reason it seems here to be "gone" is because the swiss cheese walls and the stacked land are removed, along with a crapload of bugs. Despite that, however, the Far Lands are NOT gone because the old effects still exist. The fake chunks exist, the errors you can never find in normal areas exist, therefore it exists. This should be changed in the article from "removed" to "severely patched." 173.206.28.106 00:47, 27 March 2013 (UTC)