User talk:MentalMouse42/Archive 01

Hi there. I'm open to discussion. --Mental Mouse 10:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Moved all my topics over here. --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

My current game
This was getting excessively long, so I moved it to its own page, with the latest update. --Mental Mouse 01:41, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Suggestions for Minecraft
Since the forum doesn't seem to want to accept my registration (I would have been MentalMouse42 there), I'll stick my suggestions here.


 * Placeable clocks: From the forum, but I endorse it.  Having a clock on the wall would be really nice....  I'd also love to see the placed clock act as a timer, delivering a redstone signal for one of its 12 "hours" (picking which one works much like setting a note block).  I'm thinking it should turn on for the whole hour.
 * ETA: Apparently 1.4 will have "frames" which let you mount clocks.  No timers, I guess, but at least it's a wall-mounted clock.   --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I know how to make a redstone operated timer that tells when the sun is up or down.

If you need my help, just contact me and I'll send you a plan. If you don't feel like contacting me, just watch the video for daylight sensors. Peace out! --User:Minethecreeper 7:45 30 April 2013
 * That suggestion dates from before daylight sensors were added. --Mental Mouse 13:12, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Redstone block as BUD: Several people on the forums were suggesting variations on redstone blocks.  (That is, a 9-1 "compact storage".)  I figure that besides being at least as interesting as redstone ore, it should do something useful.  My suggestion is that the block should light up (perhaps level 10 or 11) and deliver power for 1 second (button length) when any of the 6 adjacent blocks updates.  Just to make it more interesting, it should also energize when a mob or item touches it, similar to a pressure plate.  Whenever it is energized, it should become "insensitive", to avoid loops.   --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ETA: They did eventually put in a redstone block, but we're still waiting on the BUD.  The block they put in isn't reactive, but it turns out that a simple piston-pushable power source is amazingly useful. --Mental Mouse 13:12, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Cloning maps: I propose that maps should be clonable by dragging the new map to an existing map in your inventory.  The maps wouldn't actually stack, but the attempt would trigger the cloning instead of a new map.  Alternatively, a map could be cloned any time someone creates a new map while standing on the same block as the original (all three coordinates must have the same integer part).  (Somehow I originally got the idea this was already the case in 1.2.4, but it didn't work....)  The latter especially would have interesting implications for SMP, but the issues are straightforward....   --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ETA: They're doing map cloning a better way in 1.4. --Mental Mouse 02:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Placeable gunpowder trails. This is another idea I got from the forums, and like.  Placed gunpower would be guaranteed to be set afire by any adjacent flame or lava, with each segment burning briefly and having a chance to set stuff afire.  TNT, of course, would always be set off thereby.  --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Potions of fire. When drunk, it would simply set you aflame, but of course the real point is as a splash potion!  The effect would be instant rather than timed, and would affect blocks as well as mobs.


 * As a backstop to fixing the Village Zombie Apocalypse, villagers could spawn near the well when needed, subject to nearby doors. The tricky part would be if you wanted to check if the well's been destroyed... what would count?  Perhaps it should be self-repairing.
 * ETA: They picked a different method, my complaints with it are below.  --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I've concluded that a significant amount of the hazard of the Nether comes from the eye-hurting default texture for Netherrack, which blurs edges and hides holes. I'm experimenting with texture packs, but the default texture really should be changed to something much duller. --Mental Mouse 22:30, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I understand why they didn't make eggs cookable (food balance), but it's still pretty silly that they aren't. Even without cooking them though, they'd be a great pre-ingredient for some minor potion.  Maybe blue eggs (lapis lazuli) for short-duration water breathing?   Or even multiple dyes, for a decorative item with perhaps some hidden surprise?  (I just checked to make sure that you can't dye eggs currently.  That would have been an amusing undocumented feature in its own right....)  --Mental Mouse 02:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * In SMP, Librarians should also sell Written Books... the ones they've previously bought! (There might be a few useful ones built into the game, for SSP.)


 * Dirt ramps: Recipe like stairs, or even a shapeless 2-for-3 recipe.  Similar to stairs, except that they're "slippery"... if you try to stand still on one, you slide down.  Dirt slabs could be interesting, especially if they can grow grass.  --Mental Mouse 13:40, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Also:
 * Arrran Weeviling's Fanmade page.
 * Arrran Weeviling's Items from the Fanmade page.
 * It's not clear if you realize this, but there is an Aether mod, documented on this very wiki. Never played it, but it does look interesting.  --Mental Mouse 10:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Ender Chest
I'm looking forward to being able to build my first Ender Chest, and considering what might go into it. With 18 slots, some items are obvious, but others... arguable. Assuming full stacks (or as much as I've got) of the most compact form, I've so far got the following: At this point, we start getting into progressively more uncertain items. We've only got 5 slots left, and I'd want to save a slot or two for "input" or utility stuff. --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Wood logs, of course.  This is instead of any pure-wooden tools, I'll make those (and a crafting table) as needed.  The same applies to the next few.
 * 2) Iron.
 * 3) Gold.
 * 4) Diamond.
 * 5) Emeralds.
 * 6) Redstone.
 * 7) Coal.  This one is actually questionable, but not having it could be inconvenient.
 * 8) Sugar Cane.  Ultimately for maps, but since it's a 1:1 conversion, might as well have the version that can grow.
 * 9) Beef or pork:  Max-density food
 * 10) Obsidian
 * 11) String... besides bows and fishing lines, this gives a few blocks of wool for beds and markers.
 * 12) Smelted Stone. The big question here is, cobble or smelted stone?   But smelted stone is easier to convert back to cobblestone (place and mine) than the reverse, and it's needed for certain crafts:  notably buttons and redstone repeaters.
 * 13) Eyes of Ender (to make more chests)
 * Bread or Cookies: Cheaper or small-change food.
 * Flint (or gravel) and...
 * ... Feathers. A stack each of these, plus 1/8 of the wood stack, makes 4 stacks of arrows.
 * Dirt, for growing stuff
 * Wheat seeds, eggs?
 * Glass?
 * Blaze rods?

After some experience
So, now I've had an Ender Chest for a while, let's see whats actually in it:
 * 1) Full stacks:  Wood, iron and gold blocks, arrows, steaks, pumpkins, nether wart
 * 2) Half stacks: Glowstone, melon, glass, coal
 * 3) What I've got:  Diamond and emerald blocks, Ender Pearls, Blaze Rods, Ghast Tears, Obsidian, fermented spider eyes, Soul sand
 * 4) Other:  Silk Touch pickaxe, Fortune pickaxe, 5 empty slots.

This lets me set up a brewery anywhere, including as well as providing supplies for impromptu crafting and brewing. It also leaves me a few extra slots to stash ores and gems as I gather them, and the half-stacks let me pick up small amounts of of other resources. Once I need to move an EC, the Silk Touch pick is out until I reach another placed EC, so its slot is also free -- that can open another slot in the mobile EC. If I'm going somewhere in particular, I can add stuff like saplings, golden apples, seeds, or eggs.

It's occurred to me that a stack of iron could provide a level 2 Beacon pyramid in the field, and I could get up to level 4 by risking progressively more valuable blocks (or tossing in more iron). But I'm still waiting on 1.4, and it might be a while before I dare the Wither. --Mental Mouse 01:02, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Villager Cure is Problematic
Apparently, the cure for Village Zombies (which is also the means for village recovery) requires a Potion of Weakness. Unfortunately, you can't brew potions until you've found and looted a Nether Fortress. Pretty dubious to me.... OK, you could hope for a priest to offer you a Blaze Rod (and have enough emeralds already to buy it) before he gets killed. Pretty iffy. On the other hand, all you need is one Rod for a Brewing Stand, because Weakness is the only potion that doesn't need Nether wart. --Mental Mouse 20:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ETA: Apparently Priests don't sell Blaze Rods anymore, so if you haven't beaten the Nether, destroyed villages are SOL. --Mental Mouse 21:42, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Spencer10APSC Display
The user Spencer10APSC has been posting a series of comments on my talk page that have gone from snippy through obnoxious to arrogant and finally incoherent. Since Ultradude25 has apparently decided to let him off with a warning, I feel my best remaining response, is simply to leave them online for other people to see (and if Spencer's not embarrassed by them, he should be). However, I don't want them crudding up my talk page, so I've exiled them to their own page. Also included are my replies and Ultradude25's warning.
 * On consideration I've decided I do want to quote UD's warning here. It's good advice for anyone, and not just for this wiki:  "Spencer, I'd recommend you read the rules properly before trying to tell people that they're breaking them... –ultradude25 (T&#124;C) at 08:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)"

--Mental Mouse 11:21, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * His further comments have been transfered to the same page, as will future comments in the same vein. And no Spencer, I am not insulting you, nor embarrassing myself.  Here's some more advice to go with Ultradude's:  When you discover that you're standing in a hole... stop digging.  And since you ask for a specific request:  Stop leaving your notes on my talk page.   --Mental Mouse 20:22, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

RE:Mr. Tubbytuts? KingFlametail?
WTH? I don't know whether to cry "sockpuppeting", "vandalism", or just "pranking"! --Mental Mouse 13:50, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I do not own Kingflametails account, My Little Brothers account is MrTubbytuts (He is new to Formatting so I helped him!) Grid Cakebomb.png Arrran Weeviling The Inventor of the Cake Bomb! 13:52, 3 September 2012 (UTC) (This is not Sockpuppeting, I made a Epic box for My Friends
 * OK, it just looked odd to me.... --Mental Mouse 21:43, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Working on a tutorial for Pumpkin & Melon farming
Over here, currently converting the ASCII graphics to BlockGrid images. Unfortunately, having more than one of the BlockGrids busts a loops-per-page limit, so I'm having to repeatedly screenshot the page, then replace the visible grid with its PNG clipping from the screenshot. (Did I mention, "Save Image" doesn't work on BlockGrids?) --Mental Mouse 01:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi (bone meal and wool)
Just saying that the recipe your undid i did not do. I edited it, i have not a minecraft playable right now, so i could not test it. But if crafting colored wool with bonemeal does not make it white, i was unable to test it. It also does not make sense why there was a recipe in the first place if you cannot craft it... Trigger hurt 19:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Trigger hurt: You can craft White Wool with any dye to create a dyed wool, including the recipe "white wool + bone meal = white wool". It's purely a waste of bone meal, but it's a valid recipe in-game which is why it's included here. You cannot dye colored wool, however, which is why your edit was incorrect. If you can't verify something, it's probably best to ask for clarification on the talk page rather than just guessing how it works.
 * I've restored the proper recipe to the page. Happy editing! --timrem 21:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Timrem! Trigger, next time maybe you should wait until you can test it.  I keep a creative-mode game handy just for that sort of thing.  I did miss the "white on white" thing, though....  --Mental Mouse 21:42, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Yay, 1.4!
First impressions:

1) The Anvil is pink! Looks like someone muffed a texture... ETA: No, that's me, my texture pack hadn't been updated. 2) Trying to get carrots and potatoes:  30 levels at a zombie spawner, I got almost 3 stacks of rotten flesh, 2 iron ingots, no vegetables. Plenty of zombie villagers, some tool wielders, but none of those tools dropped.

After a second 30-level round, I have a carrot and two potatoes. A bit of bonemeal, and now I have a farm. Also, a couple of new potions. Unfortunately, I don't have anything suitable to test the anvil... I'd been repairing items old-style before I heard of it.

An oddity: I've been trying to enchant a new diamond sword, and at level 30, I got three swords in a row with Knockback II. WTH? The first of those was back in 1.3, and I moved the enchanting table in between....

--Mental Mouse 22:34, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

ETA: Night vision is way cool -- it doubles as underwater vision, and the extended version is plenty long enough to last through the night. On the other hand, the "sticky" movement keys problem is definitely back. :-( Contrariwise, the bow is a lot quicker to release. --Mental Mouse 23:55, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

More notes: --Mental Mouse 12:55, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The new animal sounds are much less annoying.
 * Carrots do seem annoyingly slow to grow, but that may be because I'm trying to set up a pig farm at my village.
 * And what's the point of potatoes, besides undercutting wheat/bread?
 * Trading is slightly less insane... you can no longer dump an inventory of raw beef on one butcher in a single session, but when they stop buying, it's reversable, and new offers are more frequent.
 * Invisibility... wait, you have to take off your armor to hide from mobs? OK, that's not so useful, except maybe for getting past places.  (ETA:  Now you can keep some armor, if you don't get too close to the mobs.)
 * Zombie cure... well, it works, but you still need to have looted a Nether Fortress.

And further comments: --Mental Mouse 11:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Slimes in swamps are basically a free experience table: They get stuck in the water, so they're no threat, and there's plenty of them -- when emerging to the surface in the morning, I usually see at least two or three large ones flailing in the water.
 * Trading... even with the new trading, both my local butchers have fixated on selling me leather armor at excessive prices.
 * Wither skeletons seem basically chumps... almost as slow as zombies.

Smelting clay
Hey, just wanted to ask if there was any reason for adding a smelting recipe which involves only Clay Balls on the page for Clay (Block). I've reverted the change, since Clay Blocks are not involved in that smelting, but if you added if for a specific reason I'd be interested to know. Thanks! --timrem 19:14, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * My goof, sorry. --Mental Mouse 20:32, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Analyzing Anvil repair
I'm trying to build on Opaquer's excellent work on the anvil, and experimenting with item repair. Files moved: Now the Anvil rewrite itself is at User:Mental_Mouse/Anvil_mechanics, and Our notes and findings supporting the new info are at User_talk:Mental_Mouse/Anvil_mechanics. --Mental Mouse 14:24, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The rewrite has now been installed at Anvil_mechanics. --Mental Mouse 11:28, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

And now looking at book use in anvils...
Working notes at User talk:Mental Mouse/Book mechanics.

How does my page look now?
I don't know to be exact what I am doing. But I think I did okay. does my page look okay? MentalMouseGames! 00:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Never Mind it will have to wait. I have to go. Again, Hope its okay! Thank you. MentalMouseGames! 00:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That's reasonable, but I'd still suggest switching to a new account MentalMouseGames (or whatever you like) -- I suspect people here will be suspicious of someone whose signature doesn't match their user name. --Mental Mouse 00:22, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Hey there! Its the PizzaGuy. "MentalMouseGames!" Is out of town Right now. But I will talk to you for a little bit. Yes, I will tell him when he gets back. BTW I took a look at the "Spencer10APSC Display" Topic and went to that page of (Yours)? And wanted to Laugh at first, but I looked at one of his old Edits and guess what I found. Turns out he used to share his account with anther guy. Like I was at First going to do with "MentalMouseGames!". And I wonder if this blimey mystery dude screwed up Spencer's Account again. That has happened to Me, and "MentalMouseGames!" Before you know. Anyway, I and my little "Bro", Are open to more of your help dude. I say, I wounder what he is doing. (Sorry, my British ways). Nice to meet ya! And have a Pizzatacstic day! PizzaGuy1000 17:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey dude! Its me your "Twin". Before I go, I wanted to say thanks! For helping me out. Ya, I think I will make a new account when I can. BTW, My name is Russel. Whats yours? Well any way, I hope you can be my first Wiki Friend. Bye. MentalMouseGames! 17:42, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I almost forgot. Since I am a "Fresh fish" (New boy). Can you help me if I do something wrung? Thank you! MentalMouseGames! 17:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey there I'm back. And Guess what! I made my new account. Check it out! BTW, thanks for the Idea. MentalMouseGames! 18:25, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I need to talk to you.
Hey man I need your help with something. Come to this Page And we can talk. Spencer10APSC 18:51, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I need to tell you something too: I did not do the "gods known as Mojang" part of the Building a Metropolis page. Meeples10 21:15, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

What is going on!?
Okay. As you know, that was not me. If you look in the "View history" You will see that some one is Impersonate me. ☎ &#34;Minepedia!? Да я чувак!&#34; (Spencer10APSC) 19:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC) is my real sig. not plane Spnecer10APSC. Also I have talked to a Admid, and I am waiting for a Response. Thank you for your Cooperation. 19:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Wait a minute. I looked in my version history And I found out something Creeper ish. It was that User MentalMouseGames! who was talking to me. To that user: ''I am confused, Why did you do it? Did you make that Spencer11APSC? If so, why? What are you getting at?'' ☎ &#34;Minepedia!? Да я чувак!&#34; (Spencer10APSC) 19:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

How do you create a sandbox page?!

 * There's two sorts of Sandbox pages: One is a subpage of your user page, named "Sandbox", like this one.  That's for your own fooling around -- you can see where I was playing with a couple of things, to get them right before I plunked them onto "real" pages.  (You can also add another slash and filename to create subpages of your sandbox.)  The other is a subpage of Minecraft Wiki:Sandbox, which needs to also be linked on that page.  That's for more general and public projects.  Either way, creating a sandbox page is an invitation for other users to join in and edit the whole page, not just add comments like a talk page.  And they still have to follow most of the Wiki rules about appropriateness and such (the rules are linked in the left sidebar). --Mental Mouse 15:28, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Your changes to my sandbox
Thanks for the help :) --mgr 21:43, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

hopper-comparator blinking?
I couldn't get a comparator to blink from a hopper transferring items. It's either always on (while transferring) if the hopper is part of a chain, or off if the hopper is deactivated but still acting as a container to hoppers above and below.

How are your hoppers configured that gets them blinking?

&mdash;Munin295 &middot;  &middot; 04:59, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The hopper has a powered rail atop it, which is the high terminal for a storage minecart. I need that rail to go on when the chest is emptied, but not be on before the minecart gets there (or the minecart bounces).  I put a comparator on the hopper, then fed it through a falling edge detector and a pulse extender (which I was testing as I went), then by a redstone trail back to the powered rail.  When the minecart gets there, the comparator goes live, the falling-edge detector triggers, and the powered rail lights so the minecart heads back down, with only 3 or 4 items transferred.   I'm trying to automate a chicken farm -- with this hitch, I'm still having to call and return the cart with buttons.  --Mental Mouse 13:54, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm. Do you actually see the comparator blink, or are you inferring it from the FED going off? Maybe 1.5 broke your FED…
 * I tried a torch on block, sticky piston and block of redstone FED with a 3-tick repeater as pulse extender and that seemed to work fine (the minecart stayed until emptied, then left).
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 17:49, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I'm using the design from Redstone Circuits/Pulse Components.  (And on further experiment, it does seem to be broken -- could have sworn it was working when I built it...)  Can you put the design for yours into the page there?  It sounds way smaller and more convenient. --Mental Mouse 19:06, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * And... it probably was working when I built it, as I find I'd shorted the FED's output stage when I put the pulse extender on. :-(  (Note:  redstone lamps make circuit debugging much easier!)  I still want to see your redstone-block version... --Mental Mouse 19:25, 20 March 2013 (UTC) /sig fixed by munin/


 * That'll do it. Hopefully that fixed it.
 * I prefer to use pistons for debugging because redstone lamps take a couple of ticks to turn off but pistons react instantly to pretty much anything.
 * I have tons of circuits I want to add to all the redstone pages (and a bunch of outdated ones should be removed). I want to finish the Schematic template first but real life keeps delaying that. If you've got the Schematic CSS loaded in your common.css or vector.css, I added a schematic of the piston-connectivity falling-edge detector to Template:SchematicSprite/sandbox (it will look TERRIBLE without the CSS though!). It is small, but you can only get an ON pulse from the side or underneath -- but that worked for wrapping a circuit around the end of the track.
 * The falling-edge detector labeled C on the right (Redstone Circuits/Pulse Components) looks like it might work well too, since you can incorporate the pulse extender into it by changing the delay of the repeater.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 20:19, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I managed to get the cart return working... even rearranged track and signal path so I could get a comparator output from the dispenser too (to turn its own clock off when it's empty). Now I'm one circuit away from Chickenmageddon....  (No grinder on this one, as I like the XP -- if I rig that cart to deliver itself when it's full, they'll just keep building up until they flood the countryside.) --Mental Mouse 21:34, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * : ) &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 21:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Might be a good thing I can't figure out how to both read and selectively power a storage minecart... :-~ --Mental Mouse 13:09, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Munin295's SchematicGrid
Working on Logic Circuits.


 * Don't forget that the CSS hasn't been added to the wiki's style sheet yet. They'll look awful to everyone before that's done.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 14:06, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Now it has... --Mental Mouse 13:07, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

[2 comments collected] Done with Logic Circuits, User:Mental_Mouse/Sandbox/Pulse Components, Clocks. Now working on Latches, but that's gonna take a while. --Mental Mouse 02:16, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

After Some Time: All done and gone live. --Mental Mouse 10:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Notes for when my Redstone pages go live
Text to be added to Talk:Redstone Circuits:

I've now translated most of the subpages of Redstone Circuits (Logic Circuits, Pulse Components, Clocks, Latches, Other Circuits) to use the new Template:Schematic for their circuit diagrams. (The "Repeater" subpage still needs to be done, as I didn't notice it on the first pass.) This includes splitting most of the diagrams out into subpages, because despite Munin295's best efforts, the template does have an effective limit to how many schematic cells are allowed on a page. (If there are too many, loading or viewing the page becomes excessively slow.)

While I've done a fair bit of cleanup and rewriting on the files, I've also left a lot of older and commented material in order to keep it in the page histories for this changeover. They will still need a lot of community work -- some of which I'll continue to work on over time, but some is likely beyond my expertise or patience. Specifically, what's needed:
 * 1) Verification that the diagrams I marked broken are, in fact broken, and testing of others to make sure they still work (I have not tested every diagram here!)
 * 2) Clearing out the commented images and other detritus of the transformation.
 * 3) Commenting, then clearing out, confirmed-broken circuits.
 * 4) Identifying and commenting out circuits that are redundant, obsolete, or just have no reason for people to build them.  Some exceptions can be made for historical interest, e.g. torch gates.  Also, "rule of cool" applies.
 * 5) Checking the various tables and claims in text.  (Also, removing data for deleted circuits.)
 * 6) * In particular, the circuit dimensions are remarkably inconsistent, and I've seen the height (Y coordinate) in all three positions. Let's standardize on putting the Y coordinate last, and the shorter horizontal coordinate first.  Thus X&times;Z&times;1 is a flat circuit, and 1&times;Y&times;Z is a 1-wide circuit.  Also, required supporting blocks get counted -- the circuit gets measured "in a void" rather than "from the ground".
 * 7) * Timing data and pulse characteristics are always welcome.
 * 8) General cleanup, adjusting arrangement of diagrams and flow of text.
 * 9) * Relettering circuits as suitable for the discussion.
 * 10) * Filling in descriptions and captions for circuits, expanding discussion where it's sparse.
 * 11) * There are places where the redstone connections may not match the game anymore. In particular, MCSim apparently doesn't have a glyph for redstone dots (the template does), and some of the redstone shown as 4-ways are actually dots.
 * 12) * I've mostly been using the default 32-pixel size. Some of these may be better reduced to 24 pixels.

Edited for final text --Mental Mouse 00:29, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * My preference for a structure size convention is "H1&times;H2&times;V, shortest horizontal dimension listed first".
 * This puts the two most important dimensions (shortest horizontal, and height) on the outsides of the notation -- the easiest place to spot them from a reading comprehension point of view.
 * Can also be read as Footprint&times;Height
 * Convention is easy to state and thus remember
 * Also, although there are some non-newbies who prefer the "in-a-hole" notation (not including a supporting lowest level in the height), I'd prefer that the wiki standardize on the "in-the-void" notation (supporting blocks included in height).
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 01:44, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I can live with that... we just need some standard. While I'm at it, where do you think the Redstone Style Guide should live?  It's stranded where it is.... --Mental Mouse 02:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * And... it's live. --Mental Mouse 03:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I think the Redstone Style Guide is probably fine where it is, as a subpage of the wiki Style Guide. It's a subtopic of the style guide (i.e., how to write articles), but it wouldn't make sense to incorporate it into the main style guide because it would overwhelm the page. The style guide links to it (as well as some other non-articles), so it's not orphaned.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 03:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I just looked through the style guide, and AFAICT the redstone guide is the only Wiki-local link that's not to a proper page -- yet, it's cited as a "Main article" for its section. It also seems pretty much complete -- I'd say it at least deserves its own project page, and really should be given a permanent home.  So could the main style guide, actually -- I just filled in date formatting, but that's the only thing I could find to fill in.  I think it's pretty well done, barring the usual ongoing improvements. --Mental Mouse 11:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I wrote that "main article" link, just a couple weeks ago, simply as a way to make sure the redstone style guide wasn't orphaned. I didn't intend that to imply it should be more prominent or whatever, that's just how you link to another article which expands on the subject of the section. : )
 * The redstone style guide was a personal project of mine in my userspace, and was copied by another user (without asking me, though technically they didn't need to) into the main namespace only recently. A style guide is supposed to reflect consensus, and the redstone style guide only reflects consensus in that a few users have felt it worthwhile to improve. So I've been hesitant about promoting it.
 * But I agree now, it should be its own article. It's serving a useful purpose and wiki organization should be done by categories, not by subpaging.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 15:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Well as far as consensus, everyone I've seen commenting liked it. For a relatively small group like the Wiki, consensus tends to follow leadership:  You got it written (and likewise for the folks doing the main Style Guide), and it looks good, so most people just say "cool, new content!".  --Mental Mouse 16:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello
You're welcome for me fixing that redlink on your userpage. :) Meeples10 20:51, 16 April 2013 (UTC) Thanks. (-; --Mental Mouse 13:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC) The admins got MAD at me and I had to make a link to your talk page to show them that you actually said thanks! Meeples10 19:57, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * On closer examination -- they should be kinda peeved at you. First, of all, you were editing another user's user page, which is at least impolite.  Initially I wasn't annoyed because I thought "oh, I must have made a mistake, but he fixed it"... but then I started wondering: "wait, how did I redlink Ultradude's name and not notice it back then?"  And I checked the history, to discover that you were fixing your own prior error at linkifying my text mention of him, which edits I hadn't noticed at the time!  Not cool, dude.  --Mental Mouse 20:12, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Listen, it was already a redlink, I just used this link to fix it: User:Ultradude. Then, when I noticed my mistake, I used this link: User:Ultradude25. See? I didn't change it into a redlink, I just used the wrong link when trying to fix it, and I corrected my error. Happy now? Meeples10 20:33, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You added that redlink at 21:37, 28 March 2013, as edit 462666. And it happens that the edit before that was a revert by Ultradude25 himself: "Undo revision 443240 by Dan14941 (talk) Don't edit other people's user pages".  --Mental Mouse 20:50, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

OK... I'm sorry then. I didn't know. I just clicked on the link from when you edited my talk page about "Building with Diamond" and it took me there. I saw the redlink and fixed it. I did not look under history. I did not know that I was doing something wrong, and if you do not want me to, I will undo the edit. Meeples10 21:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You will leave my user page alone from here on in. If you see "something you want to fix" on someone else's user page, I suggest you handle that by telling them about it on their talk page, and let them fix it if they want to.   --Mental Mouse 21:38, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I GET IT now please drop the subject! Meeples10 22:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Meeples10, you are on someone else's talk page, answering their reply to your prior comments. Telling someone any variation of "shut up" is pretty rude, but especially in their own space.  --Mental Mouse 13:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Moving pages
You don't have to use move when you move pages. The purpose of that template is for proposed article moves. This is either to obtain consensus over a period of time (hence the discuss link) or when the target page needs to be deleted by an admin. If you can move a page yourself, just move it. In your situation, you and Munin did exceptionally well on schematic and I doubt there will be any objections to moving those pages to article space. 23:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, I hadn't realized I could just move pages, until you wrote assuming I could. (Upon which I explored and realized that little triangle menu had a "move" link attached.)  But I've pretty much done with the subpages at this point, and the "main" pages need to be copied over the old pages to preserve the old pages' history.  --Mental Mouse 23:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yea, that's the dropdown menu where the top menu tabs slide into. Glad I could help :)  23:54, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Stashing a bit of code
--Mental Mouse 15:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Ultradude25:  "run that in firebug/firefox console with the editbox open."
 * A combining overline can be had with entity &amp;#x305;.

Hi
Hi, Mental Mouse! --70.181.68.226 03:26, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Dude, I have no objections to chitchat, but you are flooding the Recent Changes section. Really, a wiki isn't so hot for conversations, you could do better at the forums.  (And given the size of your IP talk page, you really ought to at least get an account here.) --Mental Mouse 10:55, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

If that's bothering you, sorry, I didn't know. That's just me, rambling on about nothing. 70.181.68.226 11:10, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

And I'll try to make more productive edits and answer questions instead of rambling on about nothing, which I'm doing now! 70.181.68.226 11:14, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

A reminder
When you comment on someone else's talk page, you are their guest. They get to decide what stays. (Subject to wiki rules, of course.) --Mental Mouse 12:55, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Me again...
You seem to answer a lot of questions, so can tell me how you can make a custom signature for every time you use ~, like using sprites as links? I've seen people that have that, so I know it's possible. Meeples10 20:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You can set your signature in your Preferences page (link in the blue box to the upper right). You can use wikitext, but there's a limit of (IIRC) 256 characters.  Please remember that people will be looking at that every time they read your comments.  --Mental Mouse 20:51, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Meeples10 23:48, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Your reply to my edit on your talk page...
If you did have a whole section on your talk page called Suggestions for Minecraft, what do you expect? The 1000 chunk thing, I got that from a mod I made. In fact, ALL of those were from a mod I made. ×Meeples10× 20:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * First of all, those are my suggestions, which is why they are on my talk page -- as in, they would not be welcome anywhere else on the wiki, but I get to put them on my talk page because it's "my space". And even then, you might note the comments to the effect that putting them here isn't particularly useful, I just stashed them here when I couldn't get onto the forums (which has a much bigger place for them).  PS:  What did your mod do about chunks which hadn't been loaded -- or for that matter, generated -- yet?  I don't think I've ever extended a world for 16,000 blocks in any direction....  --Mental Mouse 21:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The mod just stops them from loading, and the chunks outside of that range are normal, but the chunks directly on the outside of the crater have no vegetation. ×Meeples10× 09:46, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

RFC: LoadBox
While LoadPage solved the load time problems with Schematic, it's bothered me that we have to hide entire sections of an article just to handle the problems caused by the schematics in the sections. I'm especially worried about people using the search function -- they may easily find themselves in an article fragment with no obvious way to get to the main article.

So I've created LoadBox -- and I'd like your feedback before I publish it to the Template namespace and ask for greater feedback (since it'll probably be mostly me and you using it at first).

LoadBox creates a box (by default, floated right) into which content can be loaded. This allows us to keep the main text in the article and let the user load individual schematics as needed.


 * Advantages
 * The vast majority of the article can remain on the article page -- this will help people scan through the article, and will ensure that wiki searches produce the main article rather than a fragment of an article. Also, loading a single schematic (or even a small group of schematics) seems super fast.


 * Disadvantages
 * You have to create a separate subpage for each schematic to be loaded (though they can certainly be loaded in groups if that makes sense). For technical reasons, it also uses an h5 for its title -- we may want to exclude all the lines that would put into an article's TOC with a TOC limit template.

I've created a test page at User:Munin295/LoadBox/test so you can see a couple examples of it "in action" (and what the heck, I put one of them here too).

On a related note, I've suggested to the PTB that we change the page loader strings to,  , and   (instead of 'Load content', etc.). This would affect the regular LoadPage headings also.

I'd appreciate any improvements you can suggest.

&mdash;Munin295 &middot;  &middot; 04:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I generally like the idea, especially if Ultradude adds the auto-categorization ("Ajax loaded pages") of pages loaded this way as well as with loadPage. The headers were already an issue with loadPage, especially coordinating them between parent and child pages. I'm actually OK with schematics appearing individually in the TOC.   It might be nice to have a "thumbnail" option -- I'd be amazed if we could auto-generate PNG thumbnails for the schematics, but some folks might go to the trouble of screen-capping the 8px version or somesuch.


 * Previews can help people scan down a page for something they're looking for. Maybe the previews should be actual screenshots of the circuits? That could be helpful.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 16:06, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That's roughly what I meant by generating PNG thumbs, but as I said, I wouldn't expect the back end to be able to generate them. And I think it's too much trouble to ask editors to screenshot the circuits -- I know I wouldn't want to go through all of them. --Mental Mouse 17:06, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Pages perturbed by the latest revisions
These pages are getting orphaned by my latest revisions, upgrading them from LoadPage to LoadBox. I don't mark them for deletion immediately, but as I do I'll mark the links with strikeout.
 * Memory circuit/RS Latches
 * Memory circuit/JK Latch DE‎
 * Memory circuit/JK Latch AC
 * Memory circuit/Old D Latches AB
 * Memory circuit/Old D Latches CD
 * Memory circuit/Old D Latches EF
 * Memory circuit/T Latches 1
 * Memory circuit/T Latches 2
 * Memory circuit/TFF Devices
 * Pulse circuit/Pulse Generators
 * Pulse circuit/Pulse Length Control


 * Instead of keeping track of such pages in your talk space, I'd recommend using a category to mark pages that aren't being used anymore but aren't quite ready for deletion. I don't know if there's already a category for this, otherwise I suggest Category:Deprecated.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 00:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea, I'll try it! Cool dropper RNGs -- I note they depend on the randomness of the dropper, which isn't actually documented but I assume it's the same as the dispenser.  Care to try your hand at documenting a torch RNG?  I poked a bit at a random pulser (that 4-way thing, I think you nuked it from "Misc"), but only got as far as noting that it tended to concentrate on one pair of torches at any given time.  Also, I could use some help with the summary tables for TFFs and Pulse circuits.  --Mental Mouse 01:35, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * PS: Especially delays and cycle time, but also testing -- I left a couple of "reported broken" designs in because I managed to fix one by tweaking repeater delays, but my lab world is now big enough to be having chunk-loading issues. ;-) --Mental Mouse 02:10, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I think what they meant was short-circuited torches completely independent from each other. Every once in a while, one of them will pulse for a while and you take your "number" off of which one pulsed. Because it's random in interval, it's just not very useful (when you want a random number, you want it now). In fact, all three of the concepts described there looked like people just guessing (articles accumulate things like this), not actually describing RNGs actually used -- so I nuked them.
 * I personally don't want to work on summary tables (but obviously go ahead if you want) until we've updated these articles with modern circuits (for example, I'm working on a bunch of edge detectors). A lot of old circuits should be nuked too, but I'm holding off until you've stabilized the formatting of the articles -- at which point we can start deleting, or at least commenting out at first, a lot of your hard work! : )
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 03:25, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the point of the summary tables for TFFs in particular, is to help us choose among those dozen or so designs -- some of which are still pretty useful, others are broken (and may or may not be fixable), and some work, but are inferior on all points to another design. Dealing with that many designs at once breaks my wetware comparator, and figuring out the broken ones is tough -- for example, I'm looking at Z2, and my best guess is that its internal PG doesn't produce a 1-tick pulse anymore, but I don't understand it well enough to see why.
 * Pulse circuits are a slightly different problem -- the designs are divided among categories (which mix functional and structural definitions), but in fact their functions and features overlap to the point where the categories are almost useless.  I'd rather just have a table where you can see that this design takes any rising edge and puts out a fixed 6-tick pulse, while 'that one takes a short pulse and puts out one that's T+1 ticks longer, and then compare the resources for each.
 * --Mental Mouse 11:25, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Pulse and TFF are about as formatted as they're going to get for now -- feel free to nuke any designs you recognize as inferrior or broken. --Mental Mouse 13:05, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * For that matter, Memory circuit in general is at the point where any further changes will depend on which designs get kept. It's just that TFFs have a lot of old designs.... --Mental Mouse 19:56, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Foreign phrases vs. Loanwords
In American English (the default for the wiki, I believe, though it doesn't actually say that in the style guide), there is a difference between foreign words/phrases and loanwords. A loanword is a foreign word or phrase which has been adopted into English and is used commonly (e.g., i.e., vice versa, etc.). Loanwords are not italicized in American English writing, except to call them out in a sentence (for example, when you're discussing the phrase vice versa, rather than actually using it). Only foreign phrases which have not been adopted into the English language are italicized.

I only have Strunk & White, but I don't believe there are any American writing style guides that recommend italicizing loanwords.

&mdash;Munin295 &middot;  &middot; 20:37, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I likewise don't have current references handy, but I grew up italicizing most of those Latin set-phrases, and that includes creative-writing classes at an Ivy League school. (Admittedly, I graduated 20+ years ago!)  Poking around online, I find that several sites set the line in terms of "likely unfamiliar to the audience" (this wiki does have a lot of kids in our audience).  In terms of current usage, I still see most of them italicized (but not, as it happens, "vice versa" -- that one seems to have been fully assimilated).  Hmm,  I just dug up my old Webster's Unabridged... it doesn't give an actual rule, but does warn against "excessive" italicization... in terms that sound like they're preaching to an editor or proofreader.  --Mental Mouse 22:33, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It was still bugging me, so I checked with a particularly literary blog I frequent. The majority opinion there was that "etc." doesn't rate italics any more, as it's too common.  "E.g." and "i.e." probably don't either, but someone made the point that they're so commonly confused (despite The Oatmeal's efforts) that they should be avoided altogether, in favor of "for example" and "that is". --Mental Mouse 22:46, 15 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I'd probably go with "in other words" over "that is", … but usually i.e. can just be left out entirely and it will still make sense.


 * And, for the record, I don't obey every single rule in the books. I hate the rule that says a quote at the end of a clause or sentence takes the clause or sentence's punctuation inside it -- as a programmer, I think the only text that should go inside quotation marks is the quoted text, so I often ignore that rule (as above). : )


 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 01:04, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Your style (and mine, for the same reason) would be "logical" or "British" style, the alternative being "American" style. On Wikipedia].  I've actually heard of both word-processor "grammar checkers" and human proofreaders mangling source code to American style.  :-* --Mental Mouse 22:30, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Large biomes
So, I started a world with large biomes, and I have to say, I kinda like it. I spawned in a jungle, so "all the wood I can chop", but that borders an ocean. And hey, "Beach" is a biome! Huge beaches, all the sand I want -- and those little spits of sand become fair-sized penninsulas that I can light and take refuge from the mainland. Later I discovered the same applies to lakes and ocean shallows, so lots and lots of clay accessible. (I'm saving it up for 1.6. ;-) ) I was able to find wolves by searching a single big forest, too.  The catch, of course, is fewer biomes nearby -- I've almost filled in my first max-zoom map, and found no Taiga, Plains, nor Desert (thus, no villages). --Mental Mouse 23:17, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Good for you. --70.181.68.226 09:32, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Update: East of my first map is at least another 1000 blocks of water.  South and west of it, I have found Taiga and Plains with a village -- which is also rather bigger than I expected, with 15 farmers, a couple of butchers, and a librarian.  The taiga gave me snow and ice blocks (I've got Silk Touch and Fortune pickaxes), so now I've got pretty much all the Overworld resources but cactus.  And yeah, it's time to hit the Nether for some rapid-transit.  --Mental Mouse 19:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Good for you. --71.118.222.30 21:27, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Heh -- I'm clearing half my local jungle (it's split by water), and the more I clear, the more confused ocelots I have wandering around. --Mental Mouse 01:22, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Lol, cool. --70.181.68.226 21:23, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Glad you liked Anvil edits
I'm a newbie in Minecraft, only playing for like 3 months... maybe the "fresh pair of eyes" helped me spot confusing areas and wordings. But my wiki edit skills are extremely limited, and I'm also not English native speaker, so I hope I didn't screw up anything :)

Anyway, I've just started exploring the "enchantments world" of Anvil and Table/Library, it's a rather large (and complex) aspect of Minecraft, so I'm editing the wiki as I play with Anvil, sort of notes to myself, to make the concepts fit in my brain and grasp the gory details.

I'm planning on make yet more contributions to related pages, and I would love your feedback on my ideas of re-structuring some sections (for example, create a separate sub-section for Books to simplify the "Costs For Combining Enchantments" section for Anvil Mechanics). Is there a better place for me and you to discuss that? MSN/Skype perhaps? My username is the same as here MestreLion 13:03, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not on MSN, and not wild about Skype (I'm hard-of-hearing, so it's a little rough for me). For the costs section, the tricky issue is that books  affect several separate sub-costs with varied rounding behavior -- which is why when a source-diver gave me the full algorithm, I immediately put the whole thing in the page.  In fact, I doubt the costs with books can be simplified without losing information.  If anything, I'd be inclined to add a summary up front of the (simpler) costs for "normal" item combinations, similar to the previous version of that section.  --Mental Mouse 15:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * And now I see that you already did the split. It doesn't look too bad, but I'd suggest a few changes:  Put the item+item section first (because it's the "normal" case), and combine the basic and extra costs.  And for the books, I'd add a note that the book costs expose more of the internal structure of anvil pricing costs, due to the discounts on various sub-costs. --Mental Mouse 15:44, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I did the split, the item+item section was considerably simplified. The "basic+extra" grouping is only relevant for books. Books was also simplified a bit, and I tried to be really careful not to lose a single bit of algorithm information. Both sections can still be further simplified, but that as a start. As for Skype, I don't mean voice chat (my accent and understandting are bad), but text chat... much faster to discuss options than here. Just add me and try :)


 * Also, i'm trying to figure out how/where to add the following info i've found out:


 * - 4-unit repair restores 100% durability, the same as using a newly-crafted matching item as sacrifice. So if XP cost is not a huge concern and saving raw material units is important, a common scenario for diamond items, then for all items that cost 4 or more material units to craft, such as all Armor items, you save materials using unity repair rather than sacrifice (4 units for 100% repair instead of up to 8 in case of a Chestplate). And since swords and all tools use at most 3 units to craft, you save material using Sacrifice instead (1 to 3 units to craft instead of 4)


 * - A "reverse" transfer repair (pristine new item as target, near-broken enchanted as sacrifice) costs 2*(Sacrifice Base Value)+1 + prior work, regardless of material or durability left on sacrifice (the "near-broken" part is just an example to waste less material). Yes, all that complex formulae is reduced to 2*BV+1, and it derives directly from BV formula and Transfer costs rules. It's such a simple formula that deserves to be mentioned somewhere. And it can surprisingly be a good choice for repairing mid-BV Diamonds Swords/Tools, being cheaper than 3-diamond unit repair and traditional "enchanted as target, brand new as sacrifice". If my math is correct, this holds true for tools up to 18 BV + 2/3/4 enchants (hence mid-BV), enough for Sharpness 4 + Knockback 2 + Fire Aspect 1 or Looting 1
 * MestreLion 03:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

(Interleaved replies broken out by MM.)
 * This thread should probably be in Talk:Anvil mechanics, but since this is where the improvements are being discussed:
 * I found the section on Item+Book to be confusing. The "cost-per-level halved" is mentioned in "base" cost and twice in "extra" cost, but then it might be overridden? I'm confused. Maybe some examples would help. : )


 * Worth mentioning: unit repairs (diamonds to repair diamond tools) might be efficient in some cases, but sacrifice repairs use renewable resources. It's possible to develop villagers who will give you an endless supply of diamond items for emeralds, and emeralds for easily renewable resources like auto-farmed uncooked chicken. Developing such villagers takes some time, but once completed you will have little need to go caving for diamonds ever again.
 * Discussing tactics is verging into tutorial territory, but I think it would be fine to have a section on optimal uses.
 * &mdash;Munin295 &middot; Grid_Book_and_Quill.png Grid_Stone_Pickaxe.png &middot; 04:40, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Item+Book section was recently split from Item+Item, but it still contains a lot of cruft, and can be further simplified. It's a Work In Progress. As for your questions: "cost-per-level halved" is indeed mentioned in both "basic" and "extra" cost, but only once in each. And since the "extra" group is halved in the end, you have roughly CPV/2 + (CPV/2)/2 = CPV * 3/4 * Levels gained. Do not confuse it with "maxed out" cost of "extra" section: with new and increased enchantment you gain levels, with maxed out you don't, but you still pay something: the cost of a single level (a CPV). It's in the "extra" group, so it is halved in the end. MestreLion 08:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does need some rewording. And some examples. You can check if formula is correct (test in-game Anvil) and post your tests as Examples :) MestreLion 08:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Material-wise, unit repair is only efficient for Armor. For tools, renewable via villagers or not, Sacrifice is always more efficient. And similar in cost for the 10-20 BV range, 2/3 enchants, diamond tools. MestreLion 08:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * [re: new section] True, but I suggest it would be named "Guidelines" or "Common Scenarios", instead of "optimal uses". Optimal is a very strong word. we are giving suggestions for good / sane uses, not necessarily *the* best use ever. MestreLion 08:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * MestreLion, that interleaved reply wound up being very confusing, I un-interleaved it with an added note. And please remember that even with diamonds, material cost is not always the priority, especially if you're bumping up against the 39-level limit.  Let alone if you'rejust  working with iron.
 * Munin, trading for diamond tools is nice if you've got it, but not all of us want to spend real-world weeks building uber-villages and breeding blacksmiths and priests. For that matter, in one of my current worlds I've explored a max-zoom map without finding a single village -- and my initial Nether portal was a disaster, right under a lava flow.  (I did get the far end deactivated, but it was painful.)
 * Moving the discussion back to Talk:Anvil mechanics is a possibility, but that page is already large enough that it may warrant archiving.
 * --Mental Mouse 10:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)