Talk:Tutorials/Griefing prevention

This article is incredibly outdated --TheBix 12:47, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

should be careful to keep this article NEUTRAL. Having an anti-greifer stance, while it is the opinion of most minecraft users, is not proper on a wiki. Remember this article is here for information purposes, it is not to help nor hinder griefing. --Peroggi 05:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Everything beyond the first paragraph should probably be culled for relevance then. It's not an explanation of griefing--it's a shopping list of things for griefers to do.  For example, "Social Engineering" isn't a type of griefing, it's a technique someone might use to further their goal of griefing.  "Sanding"?  Seriously?  ...and "time"?  They're all but saying "If you want to grief, simply wait until the admins aren't looking." --Dagmar d&#39;Surreal 20:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's also stupid, the way the bot section is formatted. It's typed like it's some sort of lore or something, and that's just retarded. Codyfun123 00:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

NPOV Stance of Text
It seems very pro-griefing to me. It does not list ways to fight it, but it does help give people who may want to know HOW to grief some valuable information. I formally request that this be given a NPOV stance is if fact that is the goal of the wiki, either through deletion of the non-wiki "tutorial" like content that makes up most of the page, or the addition of counter arguments and information on how to combat griefing. I also honestly dont think that you need such a long tutorial-like text to explain in a simple manner that greifing is anything done to piss people off or destroy their work. This reads like a list of game mechanics that can eb exploited, rather then a explanation of the word and its meaning. Feverdream

I also feel that this is EXTREMELY pro-griefing. Any griefer would consider this a very useful how-to guide. The only content that should be included in this page is the definition of griefing. here's my example: "griefing (in it's most basic form) is causing grief to another person, such as by kicking down sandcastles. In minecraft, griefing is destroying another persons progress or work (causing them grief), such as destroying your castle with large amounts of TNT or abusing pvp by stealing items." Thats pretty much all you need to know really. If some sicko griefer thinks the information currently on this page should be preserved for some reason, he could make a "tutorial/griefing" page. I would NOT support the making of this page, however. Mybabypetghast 17:20, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
I don't know where or why the word 'griefer' has it's definition on MC, but someone should know...

No, the term griefer is usually used to describe a person who causes another one grief, and is usually used in the context of a game. A griefer is usually someone who doesn't hack (but they can be a hacker), but uses some glitch or bug in the software to cause grief. --WedTM 17:33, 22 August 2010 (PDT)

It's a relatively new word (Wikipedia) and specifically describes the mindset of people who enjoy kicking over your sandcastles. --JellyfishGreen 10:59, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Anti-griefing
Is it appropriate to list anti-griefing measures here, like tree and fire flags, or password-protected servers?

More philosophically, the design of the game permits behavior X, where for example X=adding blocks; performing X on a structure that is not your own can be either co-op play (when done with agreement) or griefing; how thus could griefing be designed out of the game? --JellyfishGreen 10:59, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Block Protection? In Garry's Mod, most servers run Prop Protection. This stops people from messing with props (objects) that aren't theirs unless they are on the owner's whitelist (allowing for co-op stuff). Could a similar thing be done for Minecraft? When you place a block, it's then defined as yours and can't be removed by others. Being attached to the username, griefers can also then be tracked and easily ousted. Kookas 23:52, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Psychologically attacking Griefers is an effective way of turning them and having them clean up the mess they have made. Grieferventions don't necessarily openly accuse the Griefer of his crimes but portray the want to help the Griefer break from the vicious cycle of addiction. Addamondes

Griefer List
This might be a very valuable list so servers know which accounts to ban from their servers because of the nature of griefers.

–The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kaspar (Talk . Please sign your posts with   !


 * It probably wouldnt be practical, for it would get very large very quickly. Besides, griefers often change names and IPs so the bans are then useless.Toadbert


 * lets not do that, shall we?--Quatroking - Garble Garble! 22:08, 21 September 2010 (UTC)


 * we shall! Toadbert

List of griefers? Nope.
I have to agree with not making a list, because as it's been said, griefers switch names, IPs, etc. I used to run a server back in the olden days of Indev/Infdev (a creative server), using...uhh...I forget the name of the program now (where's that old list of Creative Server mods?).

Anyway, griefers were obviously one of the biggest problems my admins and I faced on a daily basis. I mean, we suffered through every type of griefer imaginable. Everything including:


 * 1) Tunnelers (god I hated tunnelers. I'd turn invisible and stalk them, filling in their tunnels as they went)
 * 2) Small time griefers who targetted a random structure in an area where there were little to no players
 * 3) Big time griefers using MCTunnel to do everything from spawning orange male genitalia on the map/inside of buildings which just destroyed them
 * 4) Even bigger griefers using MCTunnel to do GIGANTIC cuboids, often consisting of the pink wool block.
 * 5) "Good guys gone bad". These are the guys who will join a server, earn trust and go up in rank, then suddenly alot of griefing starts happening. Usually if a server has water/lava commands, and physics on, water/lava flooding will be the first thing to happen.

Not a day went by that I would have to reset the main map (it was a multiworld server and new players were limited to main). Eventually the server mod I used got a big upgrade that allowed us to stealth-ban griefers. One funny occurence involved me stealth-banning a griefer, then telling him he was stealth-banned and anything he destroys isn't actually being destroyed. He actually spoke and called BS on me. So I told him to bring an alt, and promised him I wouldn't ban him. So he did. Few minutes later he says "SON OF A B*TCH" (censored for the youngin's). We all had a good laugh, and he promised to stop griefing (which he did), and a short time later, he was granted the rank of AdvBuilder. Never had one bad report about him after that.

'''What I'm getting at is that there are many many types of griefing, and it would be near impossible to compile a list of every known griefer account, whether or not we count the days of Creative. Not to mention listing a reason for each.''' Minecraftinerryday 14:16, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

The MC Bans Plugin attempts this list for Beta, but at a cost. All servers with MC Bans are a huge risk to Team Avolition and other griefing 'squads'. A big no no. RROD 15:40, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Bridging the Gap
Griefers may be a species of the genus Noob or perhaps Noob and Griefers should be placed in their own distinct family away from Hominidae. The Camping Noob or Noobus camperus was once considered a subspecies of Noob but the taxonomic tree was expanded as the diversity of Noobs did. As Minecraft grows so will the overall "content" of griefers will and to refer them with their own taxonomic name(based on the strategy they take to kicking over your sandcastle) as a grifer who abuses trust would be called Dolendum fidabuti. Being a Noob may be genetic. When Noobs have a child, or a Nooblet, it will act malicious even without interaction with it's parents. Griefers offspring may be expected to inherent the same traits and behavior of their parents; although it is unheard of for a pair of Griefers to mate or even be capable of doing so. This gives further interest in placing both Noobs and Griefers in their own family instead of just a physiological disorder. –The preceding unsigned comment was added by Addamondes (Talk&#124;Contribs) 15:30, 9 April 2011. Please sign your posts with

Do we really need to know the species of griefers? I don't think so... –The preceding unsigned comment was added by a anonymous person. (Talk&#124;Contribs) 15:30, 9 April 2011. Please sign your posts with

DoS
Does this section really belong on here under griefing? I know it is disruptive, but it doesn't really fit the concept of griefing, at least IMHO. DreadLindwyrm 13:40, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Section Needed? + Tidied Page
Right, I have done a bit of updating and a bit of cleaning up. Plus, I stubled upon the section 'Caking'. Is this a joke? Because, it really, really, isn't strong enough griefing type to even make it onto this page.

Honestly....

RROD 15:36, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

The Stoning Section
This section is a complete abomination of grammar. Please, whoever wrote this, refrain from editing this wiki and learn more about the English language. It is an absolute mess. (Just kidding, but please review this) Rgamer35 23:13, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * They contribute with their knowledge, now you contribute with translation, dictation, grammer and editing skills. --HexZyle 01:48, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Cover more about bukkit plugins
I think this page should cover bukkit plugins like WorldGuard Logblock etc. That can help servers. Jtl999 01:23, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Forming Volcano
Does anybody know why a picture of a volcano is posted next to the "Offensive Structures" section of this page?

76.22.15.178 02:44, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Both the images are under "stoning" but they protrude into the next section because the wiki doesn't create a paragraph break when pictures do that, unlike Microsoft Word. It would be correct to place a paragraph break there, but it wouldn't look right having a random space there. --HexZyle 01:35, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * EDIT: But how does it look now? --HexZyle 01:42, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * EDIT2: oh nevermind, im just making it worse. --HexZyle 01:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense. Thank you! 76.22.15.178 01:27, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Shameless Self Promotion
ILLIAD, will you please stop editing the "Mods" section to praise yourself. I know for a fact that most of the information you put is false. I edited one section of yours and I removed the other two.

Suggestion - Complete rewrite of the Griefing page
Honestly, this page is (in its current form) a complete disgrace of an article. Not only are most of the suggested "Griefing Types" impossible to do, but they are sensationalist and incredibly biased. This article does little to inform the community what griefing actually is let alone its capabilities.

So I rewrote the entire article, however because it involved me starting over from scratch, it was blocked by the wiki software. Discussing it with Wiki admin Kizzycocoa, we decided to present my rewrite to the community and see if you felt that my rewrite was good enough to replace the current article.

I like to claim a small bit of expertise in the subject, as a griefer/coder for a well established team as well as a server admin for over a year.

My rewrite can be found at Griefing/editcopy (and of course the current version can be found at Griefing).

- Emylbus 13:22, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Removing the section Tools to make griefing more interesting
I tried to remove the section Tools to make griefing more interesting which tells the player what to use for griefing, it even says that Flint & Steel; My personal favorite, and Lava buckets: Put this on wooden buildings in populated area to cause a huge mess.

When i tried to remove that section, the action was considered harmful. It's not right, a wiki just can't tell other people how to grief. 190.44.91.223 14:02, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a difference between being an instruction manual for griefing and providing information about how griefers operate. If we were to operate as if you were correct, we would also need to remove any discussion as to how prevent griefing too. The problem you are suggesting is there is doesn't exist, anyone who has played the game for any amount of time can figure out how to grief (basically just breaking blocks. The purpose of a wiki is not to be biased in any direction but simply provide information. However, this is a very low quality article and I suggest you support my rewrite at the Community Portal. --Emylbus 08:01, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Rewrote Entire Article
After seeing the numerous complains on this Talk page, and the sloppy original article, I have replaced it with my version. I posted here and waited a week for community feedback. Because all was positive, I have changed the article to reflect my changes. - Emylbus 05:52, 18 January 2012 (UTC)