Talk:Crafting

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Crafting Image Template
--ultradude25 23:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Animations
Should we remove these? They are rarly lined up correctly (Input and output go out of sync), and I think they are distracting. I would think that one example with a link. to the rest would be all thats needed, or even just individually listing them. Also, they preclude us from using Wedge's new crafting images, which would be great if it weren't for this. --99.171.189.189 06:48, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the Crafting -> Output thing should be one image. Then they wouldn't get out of sync. Like this for example:
 * [[File:NewCraftingExample.gif]]


 * I too feel this should happen, lest we have people think leather makes diamond armour --Kizzycocoa 13:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd be happy to go through and change the images if I have time tomorrow. --ultradude25 14:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, it's done. What do you think? --ultradude25 08:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks great! Thanks for the overhaul.  --Allus 20:02, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * No problem. --ultradude25 07:38, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Table Sizes
Is it just me or are the tables not lining up properly? I went and looked through and they all have the same size settings, so I don't know why they're not actually the same size. Anyone with more wiki knowledge want to fix that up? It looks quite unprofessional. --ultradude25 13:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, it's because silly people have been cropping the input/output images incorrectly and it was pushing the table out. Fixing it now. --ultradude25 14:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Done. --ultradude25 14:26, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not on my normal computer, so I have to use Chrome and the tables are really messy. They line up fine in Firefox and even IE. --ultradude25 04:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, I don't know why I didn't realise this earlier, but Chrome is stupid and thinks it can do whatever it wants with the table size if a total size for the table isn't specified, even though the sizes for the individual parts are. Even IE realises this. The tables should now look nice and aligned to Chrome users. --ultradude25 13:32, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Basic Blocks
Could we please have a scetion on how to make basic Blocks Like gold glass etc i for one cant for the life of me work out how to make glass or color wool i know its basic but still i think it is needed. --doomkid


 * No. There is no coloured wool and gold and glass can be found on the Furnace page. --ultradude25 06:40, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok then at least link it to it or some thing along those lines Join the pages I was looking around for hours and could not find that page --Doomkid


 * Please indent the discussion properly. There is already a link where it tells you how to craft a Furnace. --ultradude25 13:45, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Snow
I believe that snow blocks only need 4 snow balls in a 4x4 crafting grid, rather than 9 in a 9x9. Today I managed to make a snow block using a 4x4, but I could be mistaken. --108.98.91.113 18:28, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Snow (Block) is made up of nine snowballs, not four. --DrDude


 * Wrong. It's been changed to a 2x2 grid as of the 1.0.6 update.  I verified this myself on 1.0.6_03. --Arlnet 03:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Update: A confirmation, if you use a shovel against a block of snow, you gain a definite amount of 6 snowballs back. This was tested ten consecutive times.  Starting with 4 (to make the initial block), I ended with 24, building a single block every attempt. --Arlnet 04:16, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * also with snow you can kill animals


 * WHAT?! thats complete bull****, by destroying a snow block, you get 4 snowballs which can then be used to make that same snow block through crafting. A snow block is made out of 4 snowballs at the current moment, i tested all of this. also, YOU cannot hurt anything with snowballs, you can only lauch the snow balls at animals but it does no damage what so ever, who the hell even wrote that!?!?! --WallShadow 01:48, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Did I ever tell you 'bout the time mah buddeh Notch updated Minecraft? Yeah he fixed the amount of snowballs an' everything. --ultradude25 05:04, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Check the Version History. September 18 2010 : Solid snow blocks only drop four snowballs. At the time this comment was posted (back in JULY), Snow blocks dropped 6 snowballs. -JC 06:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Cloth Armor
I tried to create clothing with cloth, and it's possible. Perhaps someone less lazy than me could investigate this?


 * It gives the same amount of armour points as iron. --Anonymous


 * It might be a mod, do you have any? I will check.... (moments later)
 * Nope, it doesn't work. --User:Samylance Oct. 26, 2010

Bread Recipe
The crafting of Bread changed. It is now [░][░][░] [░][░][░] [w][w][w] Notch said he didn't want bread to take so much wheat...

Edit: I changed the image now, so it's correct... --DeepData

Is it real?
Is it possible to grow wheat and make soup now or soon?


 * It is possible now.


 * But how? Is it paid game function?


 * Neosowmas: Yes, you will need to buy the game...


 * Sandbox: but it comes in survial mode soon, right?


 * Indev is just a more up-to-date and less stable version of Survival; the stable version will be updated around when the game enters beta, though I don't know if it'll be available to non-paying players by then. --Haipa Doragon 14:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Durability Affecting Yield?
Has anyone else noticed this? It seems like higher quality, higher durability tools have a higher yield when it comes to gold and diamonds. Can someone confirm this or have I just been unlucky?


 * Wooden picks are required to gather from stone and coal.
 * Stone picks are required to gather from iron. Iron picks are required to gather from gold and diamond. --buster2Xk

Crafting Images
Ideally crafting images should be divided into an entire icon set. Instead of uploading a separate image for each item people would just type in the 9 icon names. This allows for expanding the list on the fly with new items as they are added. You won't have to animate a new image every time something is added to the game either.

It should be fairly easy to create a template that will let you type something like And generate a nice box easily. I'll take a look at making a working demo. I don't know if anybody bothers reading the discussion pages so I'll consider mentioning it on the forums too. --Wedge 00:00, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a test.


 * --Wedge 02:43, 6 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you should add an animated image that scrolls between diamond, gold, iron and wood for the tools. And diamond, gold, iron and leather for the armours. --buster2Xk


 * Why dont we switch to this already?It looks awesome and teh popup also tells the material --Vibhor 12:59, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I would also switch to this so it is easy to add new recipies --Shutdown27 13:18, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I call in a vote whether it should be switched or not.I have the power to call in a vote,haven't I? --Vibhor 14:29, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh man,everybody is ignoring this.C'mon people give some opinions. --Vibhor 16:28, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if I like it or not... Seeing as they're separate images, that means the animated ones are going to get all out of sync. Even now, where it's just one image for the grid and one for the output it gets out of sync, so I'd hate to see how 10 animated images go... --ultradude25 04:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesnt even support animated Gif so no use. --Vibhor 06:21, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It will soon. Now that parser functions are available, I can modify this to do so.— Dæ dαlus Contribs 01:17, 26 August 2010 (PDT)
 * Actually, Ultra has a point. If there is interest, I will develop it, but I'm not going to go about creating useless code.— Dæ dαlus Contribs 01:19, 26 August 2010 (PDT)

I was actually just about to do this myself when I saw you had started. Here is my initial table: Since the borders are done in CSS, it allows us to just upload the normal icon, without the border, so we can use the same icon image in other articles and such like the diamond one. Sure, the borders don't look exactly perfect but there isn't really a need to make them look perfect. I'm also perfectly willing to take up the task of coding it as a template myself, as I have experience with that, and would also volunteer to replace all the images with it when done. What do you all think? — MK (c/t) 08:24, 4 September 2010 (CDT)
 * won't work with animated images (EG, armour)--Kizzycocoa 08:37, 4 September 2010 (CDT)
 * Exactly. Animated images got out of sync enough at two images, let alone each being separate like this. Just leave it as one image, it only takes a minute to PrintScreen and crop the image onto the template then upload it. --ultradude25 11:06, 4 September 2010 (CDT)
 * Well we already have all the animated images we need. Those can be updated in the future to add more images or more frames to existing ones. But, most of the recipes are static, and I think it'd also help to have say, on the Diamond page, a little recipe section showing all the things it can be made into. I'll work on perfecting how it looks in the mean time. — MK (c/t) 19:36, 4 September 2010 (CDT)

Torches?
I am unable to create torches in the /indev/ version of the game. Has this happened to anyone else? -This only happened once, refreshing solved the problem. -The bug seems to occur 50% of the time. Saving and loading the file doesn't help, I have to generate a new map.


 * Have you tried deleting your minecraft folder, and redownloading it? sounds like a corrupted file to me. --Trippledot 08:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect usage of tools
On the line... "Using a tool inappropriately (e.g. using a shovel to attack enemies, or digging dirt with a sword) cuts its durability in half, effectively reducing its tier (for the purpose of durability) by 1."

Does that mean that it permanently lowers the tier? or just that 1 action takes 2 uses out of the life of the tool? If it is the latter, I would probably change that line to... "Using a tool inappropriately (e.g. using a shovel to attack enemies, or digging dirt with a sword) reduces its' lifespan by 2, rather than the normal 1 per use." --BP


 * That sounds right, ive used tools innappropriately and they didn't seem to lost half their power. --Toadbert

door animation
Can some 1 please Remake the Door.Gif it looks retarded And the 2 images are not intime with each other and change 2 fast. Ruins the whole page KK Thanks. --Doomkid


 * wrong place to discuss it. go to the file itself and discuss on it's talk page. ^^ --Kizzycocoa 13:19, 12 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Kiddy, you're being an ass, nobody watches or pays attention to talk pages of individual files. He posted it in the correct place.
 * @Doomkid The two images are intime for my machine, and they change with the rest of the page. I'm not sure what you mean by that.  I agree that the two images have different borders and therefore look differently.  I don't currently have GIF animation software available, so I cannot do this myself, hopefully someone who does will. --Arlnet 20:28, 12 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yea when i refreshed the page it came right In time but Yea the boarders are a bit screwed up Maybe even the image size its self is changing it looks funny if i could get the frames (each part of it i could remake it neat) But I'm not sure I can get them Bit low on time. --Doomkid


 * Look man, there's no rush, the current picture is functional, anything more is merely fashion. If you can do it yourself, you have plenty of time.  I'm sure someone else can do it if needbe, and it certainly stands out enough for others to notice.  You might want to click on the different gif's and look at who made most of them, and send him or her a message on his Talk page. --Arlnet 07:37, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler tag
I really think that grafting page needs a spoiler tag on the top of the page. There was one, but it got removed. I would like to hear opinions about this. --Nunuru 13:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree! I was the one who added the spoiler warning in the first place. How come it got removed? :( I think there's a very strong argument for having at least some kind of warning on this section - either that, or perhaps splitting the recipe list into a list of newbie-friendly essentials (i.e. the basic stuff like a crafting table, the tools, and the smelter) and more spoilery advanced recipes (Redstone stuff, cooking, ladders, tracks, and the rest). I won't start an edit war and add the warning back yet - but would appreciate hearing the argument against this... --Zolyx 14:45, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I angered several friends for telling them that boats even exist (1.0.6 update), being reminded "don't throw out spoilers, its a d*** move". I agree with Zolyx; we need to have either a full warning or two separate pages, one for "Crafting" that has the essentials (content from the "Basic" section and everything above, except for Durability), and an "Advanced Crafting" that has the rest of the content available, linked to from the original and formatted with a "Spoiler" warning at the top. --Arlnet 03:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Why would people visit the page in the first place if they don't know that this will spoil the experience already? --Vibhor


 * New players frequently want to learn how to get started. You can't expect all new players to want the whole game thrust in front of them.  Provide them with the basics and let them explore if they want. --Arlnet 09:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Dealing With Spoilery Information

Considering that there really is no obvious reason not to try and organise the wiki so that it warns new players about spoilers in a sensible way, here is my suggestion for the "here and now": Keep in mind that just because some people don't find the information spoilery, it's no reason not to provide warnings for the others who do, especially when it doesn't require much work to do so. In the long run, perhap a "List of Craftable Items" page - with plain links to pages for each specific item and nothing else - would be a good addition, too, so that readers can pick and choose exactly what information they want to see. I don't know if every single craftable item has its own page yet, but that's the best goal we could work towards. Anyhow, if there's no opposition to doing this over the next day or two, I'll work on doing the split later in the week (unless someone feels they want to do it sooner :). --Zolyx 20:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Change the Crafting page so that it keeps all of its current information, minus the recipe list.
 * Create two new pages - Basic Recipes and Advanced Recipes, and fill them with the appropriate information (as discussed above).
 * Link to the two pages from the Crafting page's Recipe section, making sure a spoiler warning is attached to the Advanced Recipes link.


 * I concur. You have my axe.  And likely someone else's sword.--Arlnet 21:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I haven't forgotten about this but, alas, I'm feeling a bit under the weather at the moment, so I'll wield my wiki-shovel at it as soon as I feel able. Okay, I've made a bit of a start - tweaked the top section of this page, and copied some of the basic items to Basic Recipes. Anything else that is newbie-friendly enough to be added there? --Zolyx 15:20, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont think its a good idea,Just add the spoiler tag upwards and that should be it.Nobody is that stupid to not to know that a crafting page for a game with mainline crafting is certainly a spoiler


 * I disagree, but as you wish. I re-added the spoiler warning above the recipe list. I wonder how long before it gets deleted again? :) --Zolyx 16:12, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it should be right at the top of the page. By the time someone has scrolled down to see the spoiler warning, they've already seen some of the spoilers. --ultradude25 04:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Kiddy deleted your article, Zolyx. It appears to have been for the reason of a lack of the WIP template.  I think it can be safe to say article recreation would be allowed, if you appropriately    the pages. --Arlnet 16:08, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Rather than providing tags, or sectioning off content and further inconveniencing the majority, wouldn't it be wiser to instead make some sort of Getting Started section? Have a link on the Main Page, and mention something like "Minepedia, your source for Minecraft-related information. Most of the fun of Minecraft comes from exploring, and figuring out the game yourself, but the first few steps can be hard. If you're new, you can get tips on Getting Started. However, this site always has the latest and greatest Minecraft news and information, so any page is liable to spoil something for you. Or, if you're a veteran, you can also learn about the latest change and additions."


 * It's just a thought, but, it should give everyone the best of both worlds, while generally keeping spoilers away from newbies unless they spoil themselves on purpose. I mean, it's a wiki- it purpose is to provide information. You can't very well come on here expecting nearly every page to be marked about spoilers. So, instead, tell them what's not riddled with information they may not want to know, and send them there. Most users here aren't worried about being spoiled besides, so, it seems like a fair compromise. --Mopquill 21:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Mopquill gave the right idea. Although I, personally, link people here as a "Here's how to get started with the game, good luck", I don't mind switching to use a defined "Get started here!" page to show my friends the new game.  It can be slightly daunting to new players to buy a game and be thrown into a "wtf" position.  --arlnet

Bricks & Clay
Someone needs to add crafting bricks from clay to the crafting recipes. Anyone willing to do it? --Coolpilot 18:07, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Miscellaneous
Someone with permission to do so should add a link to this page on the main page. --Anonymous


 * Why? --KEEP IT CLEAN 08:32, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

- I was surprised by the durability count for golden tools, since I had the impressing that it was weak like a tier 0 but much more durable. I have only tested with a golden hoe so far, but that allowed 400+ squares of grass to be hoed down. I will test with other materials to see how they perform later, but this feels like a LOT more than what I got out of stone and wooden hoes before. --Magnulus - anyone wanna add animated .gifs for the armor crafting? i would, but im lazy, maybe later tonight... --brendanmint


 * Naah too lazy.--KEEP IT CLEAN 06:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

perhaps we should move the top section regarding points of tools and such to the tools page, now that it exists? Bloodmage2 18:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Armor points are wrong.
The armor points are incorrect -- I just crafted an iron chest armor that gives me 4.5 points of protection. Also, I am wearing a full suit of armor (everything leather besides the chest) and I only have 9.5 points of armor...I'm not sure why that is.
 * you must have been damaged while making the full set --Kizzycocoa 11:05, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

New Feathers?
I do believe there are two types of feathers: the ones that drop from chickens, which are curved, and the ones that drop from zombies, which are straight. Can anyone confirm this for me? Edit: Just realized, actually, Flint is used to make arrows now, instead of steel. Someone should change that. --24.140.161.73 03:25, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * [[File:No,just1feather.png]]
 * Nope! Just one type of feather.  It's between iron, sticks, string, and gunpowder. --Arlnet 05:39, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Clay Blocks
Could someone please add a crafting recipe for combining 2x2 clay clumps into a clay block? I could use it in Decorations (Alpha). Preferably seperate from the other ore blocks. Would be greatly appreciated, thanks! --Arlnet 06:12, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I would except I can't for the life of me find any clay! I've been searching the sandy water's edge for hours now and there's none! I'm seriously thinking that Notch has accidentally removed them from the spawning code. --ultradude25 07:47, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * http://www.filefront.com/17163399/World4.zip My world 4, stay in the train ride until you reach the top. I have some clay stored in my house.  It's that place way out in the distance that has lights, a stone construct on top, and is surrounded by bamboo. --Arlnet 08:08, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * [[File:CraftingClayBlockIO.png]] --ultradude25 10:48, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Fence Craft Recipe
Hey, I've just uploaded the recipe for crafting the fence. Could someone kindly format it properly and put it into the crafting page?

--Irrelevant 13:50, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll do that for you. ;)

Knight666 07:03, 20 August 2010 (PDT)

Someone beat me to it. Oh well!

Knight666 07:05, 20 August 2010 (PDT)

Yeah, I did it right before you offered to help. Could use a hand with the fence page though. --Irrelevant 20:07, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

--Postoffice 12:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC) I cant get it to work, when i put the sticks in, nothing happens, using v1.0.15

Griefers gonna Grief
Well, I just went on the Crafting page a minute ago, and someone changed some of the pictures so they don't match up with the recipe. I noticed Planks with the Fence picture, and Workbench with the Brick Block picture. So, if someone could fix this, I'm sure a lot of people would be a lot less confused. Thanks. Edit: It's fixed now, thanks. -Uncle Jimbo13 05:42, 23 August 2010 (PDT)
 * yeah, it's some notch-obsessed griefer. if you see "bald" and "f***" in their name, they're gonna cause issues. --Kizzycocoa 07:32, 23 August 2010 (PDT)

New column in table
I think we might want to add a new column in the table for the kinds of material being used in each recipe. It could help out people who are new and dont really know what the stuff is.Toadbert


 * started adding ingredients to the recipes --Dnmr 00:29, 31 August 2010 (PDT)


 * added ingredients to first two tables, will proceed later today --Dnmr 00:55, 31 August 2010 (PDT)

Including fire in the armor section
Should we? I can see why people wouldnt want to since you cant do it legitimately, but this is a wiki. Its supposed to be a big database of all the knowledge we can put in here about a subject. Toadbert

Compass
Compasses got added in, made with four iron and one redstone, with the redstone in the center and the iron directly adjacent to it. It points towards your spawn point.

Crafting grid template
I propose to use newly created Crafting grid where applicable to simplify further recipes addition, and notably reduce bandwidth. Much flexibility can be achieved with this, such as clicking icons would actually link to that material's article.

Currently, I have this implemented:

It produces a grid identical to the game's interface. (Of course this won't work for animated ones.) H3llkn0wz 06:53, 13 September 2010 (CDT)


 * I don't agree with this. It's already just fine. For most recipes, this would work great. The idea was favored earlier.  However, a problem arises when specific items can change, such as with blocks or tools.  Too many mini-icons also were the cause of page misloading, leading to the .gif animations switching at inappropriate times / out-of-sync.  I think we should keep the current format, as it works and does not cause malfunctions based on image loading times.  --Arlnet 20:00, 15 September 2010 (CDT)


 * I'm impressed with and approve of your work, H3llkn0wz. I think it would work fine on most pages, but of course, an alternative(?) would have to be thought up for the animated ones.. -- Toshu (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2010 (CDT)
 * Very nice. As can be seen in a section above, I was going to do this, but good to see the work is done already :P We should get onto replacing the ones and using it for individual items, since the image bg makes it look the same. People are hung up about the gifs, but the vast majority of the crafting recipes are static anyway, and it'll let us use it in the indivual pages as I said. We just won't use it for the gif ones. Can you finish uploading all the item sprites? — MK (c/t) 03:17, 19 September 2010 (CDT)
 * The animated .gifs are nicely done and I have no intention of replacing them. Those should stay as they currently are &mdash; synced in animation. The proposed template is for static images/recipes. It's versatile as it can be easily changed, for example, should Notch decide to change a recipe, we'd only need to rearrange materials; or if the default sprite for stick is changed, we won't need to redo 20 images; or if he changes the background it's matter of uploading a new one. The game's in alpha, so there is a lot of potential for change even for the most basic things. H3llkn0wz 23:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Raw material costs.
With things like the ladder going through several changes between Logs and finished product, could we add the raw materials costs to such items' notes so you can get a rough idea of how many raw materials to collect. Like so:

1 Log gets you 8 sticks.

Doing something like the ladder would be harder as you need 1.125 (?) logs to make one ladder so the ratio would either be 9:8 or 2:1 with 7 sticks left over. --Omnutia 03:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * um ladders use 7 sticks so redo that math. need 7 logs to make 8 ladders.  3 logs makes 8 (4 crafting runs but each craft makes 2) fences. Soul4hdwn 14:41, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Is a revamp in order?
I understand that everyone has worked hard on making this page easy to understand and accessible to anyone who needs to find out how to make stuff. But in light of this, perhaps it's time we revolutionize the format to correlate to Notch's vision. Having a Tech Tree of sorts would be far more intuitive for helping the player find out how to make any given item, especially for ones that have more than one step in getting to the final product. For instance, a sword starts as two planks to make the stick, then two iron ores, with X amount of coal to make ingots, then finally combined on the bench. Some kind of flow chart seems to be the best way to represent this- with all the rawest materials at one end and the most convoluted contraptions at the other. Adam80027 01:55, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't know what Notch's vision is though, just that he has an idea of a recipe list in-game - which could very well be just an empty box that fills with WOODEN PICK!->STONE PICK! in succession and one for each tool. A Tech Tree/flowchart works well for 4X or RTS games, but not in a game like Minecraft because there is no linear progression from one state to the next. Making an iron tool doesn't go tree->log->wood->stick->wood pick->stone->stone pick->iron->iron pick.  You need to connect up the fact that you need a workbench and a furnace, and that a furnace can take several different fuels, some of which are themselves crafted items. Coming up with a chart that is both readable and functional is a huge challenge because there are so many entry points, dead ends, and several items that are core to almost every recipe. Ghostlight 00:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Easier said than done, I suppose. I tried to come up with some kind of rough format for it, but you're right, it's too non-linear for the suggested tech tree layout. Perhaps in the near future, we'll come up with something along those lines that works. Maybe a stem-leaf plot? Who knows. Adam80027 19:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

What the heck is this?? Hammer??
I made this hammer looking thing today and I noticed I couldn't find it on this page. ??



Runod 01:23, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * its probably just some editing of your texture pack.Toadbert


 * oh yep, im dumb Runod 01:38, 6 October 2010 (UTC)