Talk:Anvil/Archive 1

Anvil for blacksmith
Anvil is finally here, i think they should put that anvil into the village blacksmith building, so it would make sense.
 * Good idea, maybe to replace those 2 stone half slabs already there? As far as i know, those slabs were to represent a workbench like an anvil, wouldn't it make sense? Also please add sections at the bottom of a talk page, not the top, and don't forget to sign your posts! (use ~ ) #trigger_hurt(Talk)(Contribs)(Ideas Page) 19:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Cartoon cliche without source
"It has been speculated to be able to fall and cause damage to mobs."

"Dinnerbone said it might be implemented this way." or "Some random guy on the internet thought it would be cool."? --☺ Sven ? ! 17:43, 10 October 2012 (UTC)


 * dinnerbonetweet:255957162763894784 - not by any means confirmation of a falling-anvil trap, but something might come of this. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

LOL
an ANVIL??? wow what else are they going to come up with, Boulders? Trigger hurt 18:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC) I bet the recipe will be something like:
 * Well i was wrong, but i was close :D Trigger hurt 17:22, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * ..and it's getting closer ;D --mgr 13:35, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow how did i not see that? so now it only requires 2 blocks of iron to make? Well i guess that makes them less expensive, i did not realize that the recipe has changed. Oh wait i know how i did not see that: THE SCHOOL BLOCKER, Zscaler. It lets me go to this site, but most every icon and thumbnail is invisible, i found a laggy solution, RNDR. Trigger hurt 13:54, 17 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow there are alot of edits going on on this page Trigger hurt 18:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Will this be a bug?
"If it lands on a transparent block (like torches, rails, etc.), it will destroy it instead of dropping itself as an item like sand and gravel do"

Do you guys think it would be a bug and be fixed in the next snapshot? 60.186.194.75 15:18, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Just find it won't be a bug because the last "it" (not "itself") refers to the transparent block. 60.186.194.75 17:13, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You know i think what is a bug is when it lands on a pressure plate, spider, or boat that it drops itself as an item, it should destroy all weak blocks depending on what it hit, say glass. If i could i would test this. Trigger hurt 17:39, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Name
I feel the renaming of Anvil to Anvil Block and the changing of Anvil to a disambiguation page is completely pointless since there are only two things referred to as Anvil. It takes the same amount of clicks to get to the page on the file format, and only increases the amount of clicks needed to get to the page on the block. We don't need the regular name for everything to be disambiguation. Not even Wikipedia does that. TorchicBlaziken 00:12, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Could we maybe make this page the "Anvil" page and the other will be "Anvil (file format)"? Seems like the best option without having the clunky word "block" in there... --Keithicus420 02:29, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, that was a unnecessary change. We don't need a disambiguation page because there are only two articles and a clear primary topic (being the anvil block). Also, if we did need a disambiguation page, the block page would be called "Anvil (block)" not "Anvil Block". -- Hower64 03:30, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


 * In general, wiki policy is to name articles the same as the in-game item. I'm in favor of moving this page back to 'Anvil' and restoring the disambiguation link that User:Minecraft5025 removed. "Anvil file format" (no parens) is fine, as it matches the other file format page names. -- Orthotope 03:37, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Foolishness
Can someone edit out all the wannabe funny foolishness in this article? Thanks. --94.223.85.126 07:31, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. You can also do this yourself ! --80.134.0.144 07:35, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Looks stone Not Iron Zigzagar 00:58, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

improving tools
Can you add a faction of improve or repair by adding an ignot,for example diamond sword plus diamond will create sharpned or less breaking diamond sword, you can add also a forge.
 * Of course we can. We just need a game we can code these things in. --☺ Sven ? ! 14:06, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

How many uses?
This is a little ambiguous. How many uses does the Anvil block have? I realize it has three states, which would suggest three uses, but it's not very clearly stated. Could someone just clarify on this? 74.94.131.53 15:07, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The one I tested had 12 uses before breaking. --☺ Sven ? ! 18:28, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Levels?
What exactly are "levels"? Are they XP levels or something else? It doesn't seem very clear.

--whizzer0 10:27, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you can't spend height levels experience seems to be the only logical solution. --☺ Sven ? ! 11:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

So is this replacing the old repair system?
I certainly hope not... I'm going to be really annoyed if it costs an average of almost 7 iron ingots (55/12) to simply repair iron pickaxes. BTW, that last "purpose" paragraph is kind of odd: "On its last use, taking the item will cause the GUI to close and anvil to disappear, dropping the item on the ground." So it drops the item instead of letting you take it? --Mental Mouse 14:34, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The old repairing still works. The last use means as soon as you click on the output tool the GUI closes, the anvil disappears and the repaired tool drops to the ground. --☺ Sven ? ! 15:00, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Renaming bug???
I was playing around with the latest snapshot (12w41b) and it seemed like in the multiplayer version (i havent tested in SMP) the anvil couldnt rename items... i think this may have somthing to do with the fact that they tryed to fix the renaming crash when u delete all the characters in the anvil in multiplayer. Could anyone help???
 * How should we? Unless one of use knows how to fix this bug and can release a new snapshot we have to wait until Dinnerbone releases a new one with this bugfix which will probably happen next Thursday.--☺ Sven ? ! 21:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you accidentally clear all of the letters from the name? I found out that on my server, when you delete all of the letters in the name, it'll disconnect your client. 75.111.91.132 05:29, 14 October 2012 (UTC)::did it crash the game? give you a client error? also you mean SSP, not SMP, SMP is multiplayer. Trigger hurt 02:24, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Anvil Repairing Bug
I've discovered that when you drop the anvil in its "Very Damaged" or "Sligtly Damaged" state, It will automatically repair itself to a new anvil. I would think that seperate entityIDs for the 3 different anvils may fix this. 75.111.91.132 05:29, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Anvil or ASO?
Does the "anvil" really get damaged with use? If so, it's not an anvil, it's an ASO (Anvil Shaped Object). - Supervo 12:38, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wayne? Its just an Anvil. It dont have to be like RL fool. --84.56.122.92 12:34, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect fall damage
The damage for falling anvils listed in the article is (d - 2) * 1.5. That was the damage in 12w41a, but 41b changed it. From tests, I'd say it was reduced and linked to velocity now, but I don't have access to the code in order to tell what's really going on. Seiterarch 13:42, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Can't go over 40 levels, bug?
I tried to repair a pickaxe with the anvil, which would cost me 38 levels. I then tried to rename it, but it said too expensive, even tough i was in creative mode. Is this intended behavior, or is it a bug? Thorgabel1 09:50, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Intended. See some recent tweets of Dinnerbone. --80.134.8.149 10:00, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

How the Anvil repair function works.
I have tested various combinations of enchanted items and this is how I found the logic work. - "A" is the item in the first slot. - "B" is the same type of item in the second slot. - all items are seen to have level 0 enchantment of each type.

If A has the same enchantment as B then the resulting item will have the higher level of the enchantment and will be repaired the same way as normal.

If A has a conflicting enchantment as B then the resulting item will have the enchantment of A and the item will be repaired the same way as normal. [See Enchantment page for details for conflicts ]

If there is an item in the first slot and in the second slot contains the same material used to create the first item, (diamonds for diamond sword, iron for iron pick, ...) the resulting item will be repaired 25% for each unit in the second slot and retain all of it's original enchantments.

So this is how it works in practice: Example 1: Slot 1 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, Sharpness I Slot 2 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, Sharpness III Result -> diamond sword, 0% damage, Sharpness III
 * Since there is no conflicting enchantments the higher one is used in the result.

Example 2: Slot 1 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, Looting II Slot 2 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, Sharpness II Result -> diamond sword, 0% damage, Sharpness II, Looting II
 * Since there is no conflicting enchantments the higher one is used in the result.

Example 3: Slot 1 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, w/ Sharpness II Slot 2 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, w/ Smite V, Looting I, Fire Aspect I Result -> diamond sword, 0% damage, w/ Sharpness II, Looting I, Fire Aspect I
 * Since there is a conflicting enchantment the first item's enchantment is used in the result.

Example 4: Slot 1 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, w/ Smite V, Looting I, Fire Aspect I Slot 2 -> diamond sword, 45% damage, w/ Sharpness II Result -> diamond sword, 0% damage, w/ Smite V, Looting I, Fire Aspect I
 * Since there is a conflicting enchantment the first item's enchantment is used in the result.

Example 5: Slot 1 -> diamond sword, 50% damage, w/ Sharpness V, Looting III, Fire Aspect II Slot 2 -> 1 diamond Result -> diamond sword, 75% damage, w/ Sharpness V, Looting III, Fire Aspect II (if there there are no suggestions for improvements to this I say we should put this information in the main article) Buzzaro 00:52, 20 October 2012 (UTC)  added link for Enchantments that conflict. and fixed error in example Buzzaro 04:41, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * This page discusses the Anvil block. The mechanics of repairing items with an anvil was complicated enough that it was given its own page at Anvil mechanics and this page contains a link to that page. I think your points about conflicting enchantments and enchantment levels are already covered on that page, but feel free to improve them. --Munin295 08:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Fall Damage
The anvil takes fall damage, as me and my friend tested by continually digging down anvils. What I would like to know is if it is affected by the distance it falls. 60.241.224.44 07:49, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Already in the article — MiiNiPaaT 11:34, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Destroying chances
I don't think it needed in the main article, so I'll move it here: — MiiNiPaaT 11:41, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Anvils have an average lifespan of 25 uses.


 * The average (mean) and median (50% mark) are so far apart... Sometimes that happens, but are you sure of your math?  --Mental Mouse 16:34, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

The probability of the anvil breaking on the Xth use can be modeled with this pmf:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=summation+as+x+goes+from+3+to+infinity+of+%5Bx%28%28x-1%29+choose+2%29%28.12%5E3%29%28.88%5E%28x-3%29%29%5D

as you can see the mean is 25 and replacing "infinity" with "22" you can find that the median is approximately 22 uses.

Renaming an item does what, now, to the repeat-use cost?
"Renaming an item removes the penalty for repairing the same item multiple times."

This sentence is currently floating in the article without clarification, and it seems a bit fantastical, doesn't it? Could it really be true that renaming any item will cause all subsequent repairs to cost the same number of levels? Or do they mean that it resets the penalty? Or is neither true and they just don't know what they're talking about?

Can anybody clarify?

Vencabot teppoo 19:26, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The usual penalty is 2 levels per prior repair. Renaming changes that to 2 levels fixed. --Mental Mouse 16:31, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Terrible Bug
In Survival Multiplayer I just tried to repair a half damaged enchanted Diamond Sword (Fire Aspect I and Bane of Arthropods II) with another half damaged unenchanted Diamond Sword. Required Experience was 17, I had that. I picked the new sword up and the Levels were removed. I pulled the sword down to my inventory, but instead, when I left the anvil menu via my Inventory Key (for me that's the tab key), I got the old damaged ones back! And I lost the levels! I googled but found nothing about the existence of such a bug. When I attempted to repair the same two items to a single one again, the Experience was 28! But they were still as broken as before -- Sanity Assassin 16:12, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You might try reporting it on Mojira, but it would help if you could figure out how to reproduce it. (Creative mode helps, but you need to pop into survival mode to damage items, and probably to test that "paid without result" thing.)  I note that an initial cost of 17 indicates your sacrifice was well below 50% durability, and if your target matched that, you might well get an incomplete repair.  Even so, the sacrifice should disappear and the target should be partly (mostly) repaired. --Mental Mouse 16:43, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Add-on: After it didn't work I used a Bottle o'Enchanting to level up and try again and my level popped up to 18 after the use of a single bottle. Now I realise that must have been me getting back the levels I "lost" during the crafting! Still the cost for repair was raised to 28 after that. -- Sanity Assassin 20:24, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Confirm this bug, reproducing by switch the language to Russian(example) and Anvil do not work anymore in SMP, but switch language to English - it works again. And by the way, level do not lost, if you reconnect level is back, and you may try again use Anvil. See my reproducing this bug. youtu.be/G1E0sIl8X9I --EuPhobos 15:46, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

New Anvil Mechanics page.
I've just replaced the Anvil mechanics page with a rewritten one based on the research that Opaquer and I have been doing. It now includes full details on the costs and restrictions of repairing and renaming items. --Mental Mouse 16:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Too Costly!
Something I've noticed greatly on my survival worlds with anvils is that they get too costly. Take this into consideration: It costs 1 Iron ingot to make a shovel, sticks are easy to get. Yet to repair one that is about to break, it costs around 5 Iron ingots. Wait, what? Something about that doesn't seem right. Thinking about the other tools is even weirder. It wanted 3 iron ingots to repair my sword! I could just made a new sword and a shovel with that! Then the XP it costs is huge. If anything, it should decrease the amount of Experience it costs with every use, or at least not such huge increases. First repair of my iron chestplate (2 ingots): 5 XP. Second time: 7 XP Third time (3 ingots): 12 XP. Sixth time: 19 XP. This is just ridiculous. To repair it the sixth time, i had to spend 3 nights fighting off monsters to get that kind of experience. At which point it needed another ingot to repair. #trigger_hurt (I 15:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well for starters, you certainly shouldn't be using the anvil on unenchanted iron items. For those, yes, it's much more economical to just repair them in the crafting grid.  Similarly, for lightly enchanted iron, it can often be cheaper to sacrifice a plain item than to use ingots.  If you intend to repeatedly repair an item, it's a good idea to rename it early (it's not too late for your chestplate), which gets rid of that accumulating penalty.  For diamond items, things can be trickier, and unit repair may well be cheaper than a sacrifice.  Check out the revamped Anvil mechanics page for full analysis of the anvil costs.


 * While you're at it, you might rig a dungeon or two as mini-XP farms -- not half as much hassle as a full mob farm, but at a properly fenced zombie or skeleton spawner, you can use up a stone sword or two and stack up some levels fairly quickly. (For skeletons, the key is fence-gates at head height.)   --Mental Mouse 18:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * First things first, I have an XP and drop grinder, there is a spawner very close to the surface and very close to where i put my home, which is also not far from the spawn point, not to mention a swamp biome is nearby so I had plenty of slimeballs for sticky pistons. I have a nice big farm with almost every bit of produce available: melons, pumpkins, cactus, wheat, carrots, potatoes, and sugar canes. Not to mention I have a sheep with every color of wool in a large pen, and cows, chickens, and pigs in a smaller area in separate pens. It truly is a great place, and to think that I just typed a random seed. I do believe I have found several other spawners, but not within the vicinity. As far as the grinder is concerned, it is not a large scale one, and there are no other spawners nearby to hook it up to, but it does produce a fair amount of XP for it's size, considering it is only 5 blocks wide and you have to punch each zombie 2 times after it drops into the area below. It does however produce a fair amount of XP to use, so I use it frequently. The reason I don't live by it is because the zombies are carried downwards and will infinitely spawn, and too many will start to lag. #trigger_hurt (I 18:45, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, you've got an actual spawner farm. Me, I just fence them off (according to type) and whale on the critters from behind the fence.  I built a big mob farm back in 1.2/1.3 (2 spawning floors, each with 4 8&times;8 pads), and it was a PITA.  Happily, levels and enchantments both got cheaper, so I haven't bothered to rebuild it in my new world.  (Also, that sucker was looming over the horizon at amazing distances.)  Anyway, anvils can be pricey, but once you understand how they work, it'll make more sense.  --Mental Mouse 19:05, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Think about it this way: When you trade with a villager, the more you do so, they will lower costs and raise outputs for other trades. With anvils, it's just the opposite. Now as unrelated as the two may be, they both take at least one input and transform it into another. If I could extract my diamonds from an ender chest (I left a few in a mine quite a distance from home so I could empty my inventory and suicide to get home). What they should add is separate types of ender chests separated by the type of material they are made out of; say there could be wooden ender chests, obsidian ender chests, stone ender chests, cobblestone ender chests, end stone ender chests, iron ender chests, gold ender chests, diamond ender chests, and emeralds ender chests. #trigger_hurt (I 19:57, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * This is drifting from "anvils", but: Trading is very different -- though in fact, I haven't done so well trading with villagers.  But there's a common factor to trading, anvil costs, and ender chests -- which is balance.   Survival mode is very flexible, but it includes a lot of constraints and tradeoffs, so you can't just "do anything"  Trading is not well balanced, but just by being so random, it manages not to trash availability limits altogether.  Anvils let you get more out of enchanted weapons, but doesn't remove the basic limit that you can't keep all your equipment mega-enchanted all the time.  Ender chests give you a limited number of game-wide storage slots.  That's how a well-balanced game works.  That said, variant ender chests are an interesting idea... you might want to toss that out in the Suggestions threads on the forums.  I'd suggest disallowing any material less valuable than brick (no wood, stone, etc), and the types might have different capacities or behavioral differences. --Mental Mouse 21:02, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I see your point about the ender chests: Say all possible materials would be: Brick, Obsidian, Moss Stone, End Stone, and possibly an admin-only Bedrock one? That would probably be more of a joke. Using brick would make the chest less powerful, but say it could be stacked to 80. one made from Moss Stone would have an extra row of space, but could only be stacked to 48. One made from End Stone would have 2 extra rows, but tools can not be stored inside. Bedrock ender chests store the size of a regular double chest, and will over one minecraft week will add +1 of every item in there (except tools). But that would be unrealistic. In all seriousness it's a decent idea. But to the anvil thing, I see what you mean about the balance, but I still don't want to spend half an hour in my XP grinder to get enough to repair my chestplate. #trigger_hurt (I 18:16, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Grid template?
Should there be a Grid template for anvils? I mean, almost everything else with a GUI has a template for showing recipes. #trigger_hurt (I 19:31, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing and suggested it over in Talk:Enchanted Book, since it could be useful on that page. However, on the other hand it has a lot of variability that would probably appear per instance (e.g. that single page would end up having all different weapons/tools/armors combined with a single enchantment book), making me think that simply using images would be sufficient, if they could reflect the hover text of all involved items. --Kahless61 19:40, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, what makes using images is the fact that they do not link to the individual items, unlike the grids. Plus, like on the regular recipes, you can use semicolons to make the image links rotate. #trigger_hurt (I 19:44, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Crafting tables, Furnaces, and Brewing Stands have listable recipes, based on limited options for ingredients. Anvils don't -- anything with durability can be repaired, and any item in the game can be renamed.  The anvil is less like a crafting table than like an enchanting table, which does not have a grid, for the same reason.  Also, an endlessly changing list of weapons, armor, and tools, would not be a useful part of the page. --Mental Mouse 12:48, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Suffocation Damage
So... I noticed mobs don't take suffocation damage when sitting on the same block as an anvil. (Unlike sand or other such things.) Should this be mentioned on the page...? Or....? 76.179.185.119 21:12, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Anvils are transparent blocks, and transparent blocks never cause suffocation damage. --☆ Sven ? ! 17:27, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Should we really link to tv tropes?
The trivia section has a link to tv tropes and it does not feel right. Mine turtle 02:58, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd say it's not a problem -- we can afford to have one or two links to there, when it makes sense.
 * First and foremost, the link is part of a sentence specifically citing a trope as such, and going to a page explaining said trope. There's not too many cases here where explaining a trope is actually relevant, but this is one.
 * Yes, TV Tropes is a famous Black Hole of the Internet, but hey, I got sucked into Minecraft when someone linked me to this Wiki, and I got wikitranced!
 * Also, Minecraft has a splash referencing TV Tropes, (and they've got a decent page on Minecraft).

--Mental Mouse 14:59, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but tv tropes is not as family freindly as minecraft wiki. Mine turtle 19:17, 3 February 2013 (UTC)