Talk:Transportation/Archive 1

Boat Acceleration
I think your calculation is wrong for the time a boat takes to hit full speed. Check it out:

Consider the boat with no running start. t = the time spent accelerating to top speed, s = top speed

For the first t seconds, the boat travels at an average speed of s/2 (starts at 0, ends at s, linear acceleration). For the rest of the trip (20.93 - t seconds) it travels at speed s. So with your numbers,

(s*t)/2 + (20.93 - t)s = 100

Multiply both sides by -(2/s) then add 41.86 to get

t = 41.86 - (200/s)

Which with your figure of 6.16 m/s for top speed gives t = 9.39 seconds. If your data is correct this should be the time it takes to hit top speed in a boat, not 4.7 seconds. -74.131.49.101 20:17, 22 July 2010 (UTC)


 * 4.7 seconds is the time you loose while reaching full speed. Pystro 04:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Even though it takes 4.7 seconds longer to travel 100 metres without a running start, that does not mean it takes 4.7 seconds to reach top speed. Consider a car that has a top speed of 10 m/s, which it can reach in 10 seconds (it's a very old car). Assuming the acceleration to be linear, the car has an acceleration of 1 metres per second squared. If the car were to start at top speed, it could travel 100 metres in 10 seconds. Starting at rest, it would travel 50 metres in the 10 seconds it takes for the car to reach top speed (using the formula for linear acceleration s= 1/2*a*t^2, where s is distance travelled, a is acceleration and t is time). At top speed, the car would cover the final 50 metres in 5 seconds. This means that a car starting at top speed could cover 100 metres in 10 seconds, while a car starting at rest could cover the same distance in 15 seconds. The time difference between starting at rest and full speed is only 5 seconds, although it takes 10 seconds for the car to reach full speed! Mr.doom 06:26, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. If you've ever graphed this stuff and integrated acceleration to speed to distance, you'll find that for linear acceleration from zero to a speed, you take twice the time to cover the distance than you would have at the final speed all the way. --Mental Mouse 03:35, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Boosters and boat teleportation
I think it would be good to mention that you can easily go faster uphill with minecarts and boosters than with boats. Would also be good if someone could compare this with boat teleportation.

Unconventional/Conditional travel methods
I think there should be a section (Not necessarily in the page part of the article, possibly here in the discussion page) about unconventional (Boat/minecart teleportation, simple boat roads) and conditional (EATS [A conditional complex boat road, that only works if certain conditions are met] and Warp speed [A method that uses the power of 50+ mobs bumping you all at once, but not being able to hit you, sending the player falling, but moving at a very high lateral speed], both invented by Youtube user Ethoslab, along with other, more common and well-known devices, such as the boat elevator, and the vertical player cannon) transportation methods, but not necessarily complete data on these, as a slight change in game mechanics could change everything, and simple differences in SMP/SSP game mechanics could make some work, and others not work. For example, one of the key components to EATS' instant speed only works in SSP due to a slight change in game mechanics, and the fact that most of these things are quite variable- how you set it up will change how well it works. Also, all unconventional/conditional transportation in it should work in Vanilla minecraft- no mods.

P.S. I am NOT etho! I just like his designs and such.

99seconds 07:40, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Minecart with running start is also missing. Should be the same as Boats. And when comparing to things like boat teleport and mob bumping "warp speed", you should also compare to flying by canon. Pystro 04:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Swimming
How fast do you go when you're swimming or being carried away by water or under a waterfall? I think those should also be on this page, I just don't have/ want to get the data for that. JesusChrist666 02:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)JesusChrist666

How Long are the Distance?
It would have been better it the distance are shown and given to make comparison much easier.


 * It says 100 meter ramp in the image description. Pystro 04:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Transportation methods
These transportation methods should be also added to the page, as they all have their speeds. If they haven't been done by the time I come around again, I'll probably do some tests and add them myself:


 * Saddled Pig in Minecart
 * Flying
 * Walking + Potion of Swiftness
 * Walking + Potion of Swiftness II
 * Sprinting + Potion of Swiftness
 * Sprinting + Potion of Swiftness II
 * Swimming horizontally
 * Swimming up
 * Sinking
 * Being pushed by water flow, horizontal
 * Walking against a water flow, horizontal
 * Falling down a waterfall, vertical
 * Swimming up a waterfall, vertical
 * Swimming through lava
 * Climbing up a ladder
 * Sliding down a ladder

--HexZyle 14:08, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Sprintjumping
What about jumping while sprinting and same with 2 blocks high roof?Peti0010 16:09, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That's more of a bug rather than a legimate method of transportation and should be left in the bugs/trivia section, just like boosted minecarts. --HexZyle 01:40, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Swimming Speed, with and without potions
I just wanted to add that using a rough testing method, swimming 64 blocks for 2 trials for each method, I got very consistent results for the swim speed.

Swimming with jumping (no starting speed)- 2.17 m/s

Swimming without jumping (block overhead,no starting speed) - 1.95 (10% slower than jumping speed)

Swimming with Swiftness II potion (no starting speed)- Does NOT affect swimming speed.

All three of these methods were tested twice, with almost exact results, so I'm pretty confident that these numbers are correct. --Dan10105 13:52, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Did the same test with a larger sample and I got the speeds 2.20 and 1.97 m/s for jumping and non-jumping respectively. I plan on filling out the list I wrote up earlier in this talk page. --HexZyle 00:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Vertical transport
I'd also like to see a section for vertical transport: Going down and up ordinary ladders (the ladder page has info there), water ladders, and maybe the same for lava if possible (is it different?), and see if a boat/minecart makes a difference. Also, falling, and maybe transit times for some TNT cannons. ;-) Maybe even some trials for staircase-climbing.  (belated signing) --Mental Mouse 14:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm adding some of them piece by piece. I'm doing a half-dozen or so trials per value.  If someone wants to do more for a more precise value, feel free.  If you get wildly difficult numbers, talk to me.  So far I'm not doing anything fancy, just built a 100m tower in creative mode.

Table format and precision
Currently, we have an "experiment results" table, with columns for two trials and "time for 100m". This seems unduly specific to me: I'd like to move "trial" and other intermediate information to this talk page, and have only measured speeds on the topic page. (Those can be updated as we get better information.) Also, I seriously doubt we really have precision to hundredths of a second, or centimeters per second... I suggest trimming the significant digits a bit. --Mental Mouse 14:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Then do it. --M0rphzone (talk) (*How to remove sidebar*) 00:23, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

OK, here's the original table with the excised information: --Mental Mouse 12:33, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

In the below experiment, the speeds of various methods and conditions were calculated based upon the time taken to travel 100 meters along the ramp shown below.

Unnessicary Data in the table
I find it rather useless to have the 1/4 slope for a minecart speeds: A minecart is either accelerating or decelerating, depending on the ratio of slope sections to flat sections, therefore there isn't really ever a "correct" speed. The only speed that need be recorded for a minecart is its maximum. Minecart acceleration could be recorded however, and would probably be of much greater use. I recommend that, regarding minecarts, we need only items from the following list:
 * Maximum speed on flat ground
 * Maximum speed on a zigzag track (this would be rather difficult factoring in the requirement for powered rail)
 * Maximum speed on a slope
 * These three may have different values due to minecart physics


 * Minecart acceleration with powered rail every nth block where 0 < n < p where p is the maximum distance two powered rails can be apart and still cause acceleration for a cart containing a mob.
 * Minecart acceleration with sloped sections every nth block where 0 < n < s where s is the maximum distance two sloped sections can be apart and still cause acceleration for a cart containing a mob.
 * Minecart deceleration when empty
 * Minecart deceleration when containing a mob.
 * Minecart with Furnace pushing various minecart configurations (With player, chest or multiple carts) across flat terrain and perhaps up slopes

Let me know if I've missed anything --HexZyle 13:55, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Mount distance 32 blocks... wrong?
The article states that you can mount a boat or minecart from 32 blocks away, however, all my testing (in 1.3.2 and 1.4) indicate the maximum distance is 5 blocks away inclusive. Placing a minecart every 5 blocks does let you get speeds of ~24-25 m/s, but not 100+ m/s like the article claims.

Am I missing something?

VrtraTheory 22:09, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Minecart to minecart / pig to pig long distance moving
The article states that you can go from minecart to minecart at a distance of 32 blocks.

I have not been able to go more than 4 blocks in survival, or 5 blocks in creative. Is this horrible old/out of date information?

Keybounce 20:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Possibly out-of-date, perhaps misinformation that hadn't been corrected. I have fixed it. --Mental Mouse 22:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Sprinting and jumping speed intended.
In the code, it sees if you're sprinting. If you're simply sprinting, it makes your speed at your set walking speed times a small number. If you're jumping at the same time, it multiplies your set flying speed instead of your walking speed by the same number as before. 108.233.150.216 00:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Horses
Does anyone have any experiments showing how fast horses can be used for transport? 83.86.73.212 12:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Check the horses wiki, I've added some information on that. --0pteron 01:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Speed formula
This is the internal speed formula as calculated in the 1.6.2 client source decompiled with MCP, it is written in pseudocode.

strafe = strafe * 0.98 forward = forward * 0.98 speed = speed * [0.16277136 / (slipperiness * 0.91)^3] If strafing & forward at same time strafe = strafe * (speed / sqrt(strafe^2 + forward^2)); forward = forward * (speed / sqrt(strafe^2 + forward^2)); Else strafe = strafe * speed; forward = forward * speed; motionX = motionX + (strafe * cos(rotationYaw * pi / 180) - forward * sin(rotationYaw * pi / 180)); motionZ = motionZ + (forward * cos(rotationYaw * pi / 180) + strafe * sin(rotationYaw * pi / 180)); Apply speed to entity at this point motionX = motionX * 0.54600006 motionZ = motionZ * 0.54600006

strafe is from -1 to 1, where 1 is when you hold the a key, -1 is d key, 0 is stopped.

forward is similar from -1 to 1, 1 is moving forward hitting the w key, -1 is s key, 0 is stopped.

Both the strafe & forward turn into 0.3 or 0.3 when sneeking (I haven't looked into sprinting)

speed is the entitiy's internal landmovementfactor which for a player is 0.1

rotationYaw is the 360 degree looking direction from left to right.

slipperiness = 0.6 (unless ice then 0.98)

These are the calculations that happen every tick. After applying the speed you will notice it is cut back by 0.546 for the next tick, this gives it a gradual acceleration, as such, it takes about 35 ticks to reach maximum speed to where it is undetectedable by eclipse (15 sig. figs). (far less might be needed to hit 95%, or within 4 sig. figs.) Of course, it never really stops accelerating theoretically.

It should be noted that a weird float error in java where (slipperiness * 0.91) ie (0.6 * 0.91) = 0.54600006 and not 0.546. This could be just java/eclipse being confused.

These calculations only work for being on the ground, not in any type of liquid or flying in any matter. y-motion calculations are more complex with taking into account fake gravity.

Here is a sample calculation of a player walking in the z-direction with 0 yaw, on grass blocks with full forwardness and no strafing. I am doing this calculation in the math software maple to help me:

restart; rotationYaw := 0; strafe := 0; forward := 1; speed := .1; z := 0;

strafe := .98*strafe; forward := .98*forward; slipperiness := .6; speed := .16277136*speed/(.91*slipperiness)^3; strafe := strafe*speed; forward := forward*speed;

for i to 40 do  z := .54600006*z+forward*cos((1/180)*rotationYaw*Pi)+strafe*sin((1/180)*rotationYaw*Pi) end do;

0                              0                               1                              0.1                               0                               0                               0.                              0.98                              0.6                          0.1000000147                               0.                         0.09800001441                         0.09800001441                          0.1515080282                          0.1807234069                          0.1966750054                          0.2053845791                          0.2101400069                          0.2127364708                          0.2141541402                          0.2149281878                          0.2153508178                          0.2155815738                          0.2157075666                          0.2157763587                          0.2158139192                          0.2158344272                          0.2158456246                          0.2158517384                          0.2158550765                          0.2158568991                          0.2158578943                          0.2158584376                          0.2158587343                          0.2158588963                          0.2158589847                          0.2158590330                          0.2158590594                          0.2158590738                          0.2158590816                          0.2158590859                          0.2158590883                          0.2158590896                          0.2158590903                          0.2158590907                          0.2158590909                          0.2158590910                          0.2158590910                          0.2158590910                          0.2158590910                          0.2158590910                          0.2158590910

As you can see I ran it for 40 ticks, and it started to repeat itself after 35 ticks. 0.2158590910 is the blocks per tick so multiple by 20 to get blocks per second = 4.31718182 bps.

Which is close, and well within 4 sig figs to the exact number of 4.317180778680964 blocks per second.

Just as a 2nd example I have done the same for a player sneeking: http://pastebin.com/xsqy27v6 and came up with 0.06475772732 bpt which is 1.2951545464 bps.

The reason this is not 100% accurate is because of weird floats that java/minecraft uses.

To turn internal landmovementspeed into blocks per second you can do:

bps = landmovementspeed * (4274/99)

Which will keep it accurate up to 4 sig figs, or you can do

bps = landmovementspeed * 43.17

which is accurate up to 3 sig figs, and a majority to 4 sig figs.

You may notice that the 43.17 comes from the player bps of 4.317 (which may make it easier to remember)

The follow formulas are their respective average percent error with the true value. using 43 should work for most people, using 40 will work for quick calculations, and using 43.1718 is for super detailed (blocks per minecraft year)

bps = landmovementspeed * (43.1718) [% Error: 0.00000926%] bps = landmovementspeed * (4274/99) [% Error: 0.00020112%] bps = landmovementspeed * (43.17   [% Error: 0.00417865%] bps = landmovementspeed * (43)      [% Error: 0.39795418%] bps = landmovementspeed * (40)      [% Error: 7.34693412%]

--0pteron 02:06, 27 August 2013 (UTC)