Minecraft Wiki:Moving from Fandom/First discussion

This page serves to begin a discussion which will decide whether or not the English Minecraft Wiki will fork from Fandom, and if so, where it should fork to.

It is requested that all editors discuss and give opinions on this matter, as it is a drastic change for the Minecraft Wiki and will affect all editors and readers in some way or another.

Overview
The Minecraft Wiki is discussing forking to another host due to various discontents with the situation on Fandom, including the reader experience, actions taken by Fandom, and reputation of the wiki in the wider Minecraft community from being on this platform. Please see the first message in this community portal discussion for a more complete list of arguments.

There are three alternative options that are being considered. One is wiki.gg, a wiki farm run by former Gamepedia staff members hosting some gaming wikis such as Terraria. There are also two semi-independent hosts: the host of Bulbapedia, and ABXY (host of several wikis including Inkipedia, StrategyWiki and Zelda Wiki). In the latter cases, a separate entity manages backend tasks including hosting and finances (e.g. negotiating with advertisers), but leaves the wiki on its own in other regards. This gives greater independence than being on a wiki farm (e.g. greater leeway to customize the wiki skin), while putting more responsibilities on community members as opposed to sharing it with the staff of a wiki farm, but not nearly as much as if the wiki were to host itself.

See Minecraft Wiki:Wiki host comparison for a detailed comparison between the various hosts. It's also encouraged to visit wikis hosted by the three host options, in order to gain a fuller sense of how advertisements are organized, as well as to get a rough idea of how the wikis function under the respective host:
 * Terraria Wiki - Wiki.gg
 * Bulbapedia - Bulbapedia
 * StrategyWiki - ABXY

Note that this discussion only applies to the English wiki. Other language wikis do not necessarily have to move with the English wiki; some have opted to remain on Fandom or fork at a later date.

Before discussing
Before participating, please read the following two pages (also linked above) to get important background information and be able to form an informed opinion:
 * Community portal#Move to a different wiki host? - the first message in this community portal topic details the reasons behind why forking the wiki is being considered
 * Host comparison page - this page details the many differences between the four hosting options available, it is essential to read if you wish to decide where you think the Minecraft Wiki should fork to

In the section below, please rank each host option from in order of preference and give your reasoning in the format shown below:
 * Rank #1 – ~

You may also rank multiple options equally or leave out options.

Both the votes and the arguments given will be factored into the final decision. The vote you give should be representative of your own opinion on the matter, and not the general opinion of an entire language wiki.

For additional comments that do not directly express a vote, such as clarification questions, please use the section.

This discussion will be closed two weeks from the discussion's start date, on July 17, 2023. If the discussion still has active participants near the end of these two weeks, the duration of the discussion will be extended by one week, closing on July 24, 2023 instead.

Discussion
''This is the main "voting" section. Both the votes and the supporting arguments will be taken into account.''


 * ABXY Bulba  Fandom  wiki.gg - I  an eventual move. No notifications in wiki.gg is an immediate blocker. Anon editing will help with wiki interaction. MetalManiacMc, French Minecraft Wiki Administrator 18:34, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * wiki.gg N/A  ABXY, Bulba  Fandom -  For me, the lack of notifs isn't that much of deal. Most of the messages I had received with Echo were useless, however I agree some may see it from a different POV. Bulba has more ads than Fandom. I mean, one of the biggest responses from the community was how Fandom has so many ads and I cannot imagine that we would come and say "Well, have even more ads". Additionally, we won't get anon editing and we will also take legal responsibility for actions we (as a community will do). ABXY does not have cookie notice, which is recipe for disaster. Once we would raise awareness, we would be in some legal trouble. Additionally, it lacks widgets extension, which would require even more time to perform the fork. And ads are shown to logged in too, which is not such a huge problem overall, but could be a pain point too. TreeIsLife (talk) 18:47, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've changed my vote. One of the ads ABXY has is in-content and it is not very visible it is an ad. This one is located above infobox, pushing it down and degrading the entire user experience. I also have to remind you that registered users will be seeing ads too, which will definetely going to affect my workflow in negative way TreeIsLife (talk) 21:30, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Fandom N/A  N/A  N/A – I do not support forking simply because having two similar wikis on different platforms is disastrous, especially when the most known and visible one is out of date (Fandom if we move). For most non EN wikis the editor base is really small and one-time editors will likely edit the Fandom one. And it would bring so much work and so many issues that I don't find it worth it.  Fusion thermonucleaire (talk) 19:02, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * wiki.gg ABXY  Bulba  Fandom - Agreed with TreeIsLife, the ads on Bulba are excessive and the lack of the cookie notice in ABXY is concerning. Personally I'm not affected by the lack of notifications. Overall I  the move to any host other than Fandom.--Capopanzo (talk) 19:05, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * wiki.gg ABXY  Bulba  Fandom - I also agree with TreeIsLife, I do not like many ads on websites and also I never really use notifications so the lack of notifs doesn't affect me. PotatoMan3525463 (talk) 19:12, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * wiki.gg ABXY  Fandom  Bulba – wiki.gg is planning on adding notifications soon so the loss of notifications would most likely be temporary and I agree not having a cookie notice is pretty concerning. BayYouGoon (talk) 19:17, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * forking (preferred options: ABXY and wiki.gg, approximately on the same level) — Frankly, my vote would not fit into a strict "1 better than 2, 2 better than 3, 3 better than 4" scheme that Template:Vote mandates (and it doesn't even support less than four options that easily). I have never edited Bulbapedia and ABXY wikis. My user experience is skewed by always having my trusty ad blocker enabled (and I don't feel like disabling it just to find out how terrible ads are on Fandom or anywhere else). I already have some experience on wiki.gg as a Terraria Wiki editor, but it's nowhere as extensive as on the Minecraft Wiki, so I'm not well knowledgable about the issues that specific host has (I do happen to follow notifications on MCW, however, which are reportedly lacking on wiki.gg). But I do think that under Fandom, things have taken a turn for the worse for our wiki, and I support forking all the way for both English and Russian wikis simultaneously. If we keep sustaining the efforts to maintain our projects' state of quality and public profile, I think we could go over the inevitable split that is entirely Fandom's fault. Out of semi-independent hosts, I guess we could give ABXY a try; while lack of widget support and the cookie issue are fair concerns, I am optimistic that they could be resolved or worked around, sooner or later. Regardless, wherever the community chooses to move (or stay), I will follow. — BabylonAS 19:36, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ABXY wiki.gg  Bulba  Fandom – I'd support a move away from Fandom. A lack of cookie notice is pretty concerning, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives in that case. Not having many ads on websites is also a big deal to me, so I'd support not having as many. Osfanbuff63 (talk) 19:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ABXY Bulba  wiki.gg  Fandom - I personally greatly value the prospect of being independent, something which cannot be attained under a wiki farm such as wiki.gg. Being independent and free to completely customise and run the wiki the way we please, while not having to worry about legal issues and monetisation, seems like the best idea to me. I also understand that notifications will be implemented soon, but they will only be implemented because we are requesting them. I dislike this philosophy that wiki.gg holds, that of only implementing heavily requested and essential features when it encourages a wiki to fork to them, this happened with visual editor, and now with notifications. About ABXY's negatives, I don't think the lack of widgets will harm us, as FileURL can be replaced by TemplateStyles, and RadioButton can be replaced with TabberNeue or JS, as I understand this allows the sprite templates to still function perfectly well. For the cookie notice, it has been said that ABXY is working on implementing one, so any concerns about that will be made null soon. Overall, as long as we fork to somewhere other than Fandom, I'm going to be happy with the result, my preference is just with ABXY. -   Harristic   |  Talk  |  Contributions  19:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ABXY wiki.gg  Fandom  Bulba - It seems like Bulba would just make things even worse, but even if not, it's very unlikely to be worth the effort. The cookie notice can probably be added reasonably soon if we just ask for it and explain that it's legally required. Lack of notifications on wiki.gg is pretty significant, even though I personally barely use them on this wiki. I definitely prefer the MediaWiki software over any other one I've seen so far. Fabian42 (talk) 20:11, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * wiki.gg Bulba  ABXY  Fandom – Money plays a strong factor in wikis, the storage cost isn't free and it will cost more each month when new content gets released. To avoid costs and setting up a Patreon or Discord Subscriptions, wiki.gg is the best alternative.  -- Azgoodaz (talk) 20:51, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Semi-independent hosts have deals with advertisers in the same way that wiki.gg does, advertisements will bring enough money to pay server costs no matter which host we choose. That's why this factor isn't mentioned on the host comparison page. -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  21:11, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Anything Fandom - Anything but this horrible website. — Thomanski | t | c | 21:31, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Somewhere Else Fandom - I do not feel like I have the know-how to decide where this wiki should move to, but I do trust my instincts in saying that this wiki should run far, far away from Fandom. Weighing the differences between the potential hosts, I cannot come up with a good conclusion on my own, but if the option is simply "fork or no fork", I choose to fork. Independence is a value I hold deeply, and if moving away from Fandom would allow more freedoms for this wiki, I will always support it. // Shock Micro // 21:50, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * wiki.gg ABXY  Bulba  Fandom – I vote for the eventual move, but I want to ask why Bulba was considered an option when Bulbapedia/Bulbagarden is mostly focused on Pokemon specifically and not just being a "wiki host"? Wiki.gg's worked well for the Terraria wiki, while ABXY and other NIWA-affiliated wikis have been thriving on their own, but I feel that Wiki.gg is the best because it's probably the closest to the wiki's roots of Gamepedia, and appears to allow free-er "ownership" of the wiki from the little i've gathered. Adr451 (talk) 22:10, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Fandom N/A  N/A  N/A – . I don't think moving this wiki to a new website would be helpful, but it would be more destroying than you can believe. All readers of the English Minecraft Wiki are still habituate to the fandom plateform, and would always read in fandom and may not be habituate to go in the new website. Also, it would be a problem for all the fandom-foreign wikis who uses the English images, if one day the Fandom version of MCW EN is deleted. The developpers can do what they want, but I STRONGLY OPPOSE this operation. Thanks for understanding and reading my opinion. Reverse88 (talk) 22:24, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Fandom N/A  N/A  N/A – I  the idea of forking the wiki because it will have a negative impact on both readers and contributors. Additionally, it will create division within the communities on both wikis, particularly affecting non-English wikis with limited active users. Even if Fandom is bad, I believe that the proposed fork is still an unfavorable solution. Ideally, a complete transition of the entire wiki, across all languages, by removing it from Fandom and redirecting it to wiki.gg would have been a better approach. Unfortunately, it appears that this option is impossible. Brandcraft06 (talk) 22:30, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * moving away from Fandom. I deeply regret not making an account during the Gamepedia days. Fandom is a horrible site which keeps a great distance from making contributions. SWinxy (talk) 22:59, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * wiki.gg ABXY  Bulba  Fandom –  Fandom is terrible, and anything else would be an upgrade. The constant ads (especially on mobile where I can't use an ad-blocker) as well as the intrusive sidebar make it very annoying to use the site. I don't edit here ever (I only have an account to have custom CSS to remove the previously mentioned sidebar) but I am a frequent reader, and the mobile performance of the site is terrible. I assume this is from the generous  amount of ads Fandom has, but I don't know for sure. From the 3 other wiki options provided, I think wiki.gg is the best because it has the most features, and the ability to do things the others can't (I'm also very partial to the Vector 2010 skin used on the website). ABXY and Bulba are both good too, anything that isn't Fandom will be a change much appreciated. Williamist0 (talk) 22:57, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Additional comments
This section is for additional discussion separate from the main vote.