Minecraft Wiki talk:Community portal



Separate Wikis for Legends and Dungeons
With Legends coming very soon, I wanted to open this discussion again.

I don't think this wiki should hold every game in the Minecraft franchise, right now I think it's okay to have all the games here, but with Legends and most likely more spin-offs in the future, this wiki is going to become incredibly cluttered with five different games in one wiki. All of these games are incredibly different from each other, the only similarity is that they are minecraft games.

This tweet by Marc Watson (a developer for Dungeons) is also pretty telling, even a developer has complained about it https://mobile.twitter.com/Marc_IRL/status/1425440132807680005. I understand this tweet is old, however nothing has changed since the tweet's creation, so it still applies.

I only mention Legends and Dungeons in the topic title as I believe they are top priority if we are to move other games to separate wikis. Ideally, all games should have their own wikis, but Earth and Story Mode are discontinued games, so I don't think they're as important to move. Also because I imagine it would be hard to find people to manage those two wikis, I very rarely see any edits on either of those namespaces. HMPilatus (talk) 11:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * , but
 * The new wiki has to have "Hydra features" enabled
 * The new wiki should have dicussions turned off by default
 * There should be some sort of "alliance" between MCW, MCD Wiki, MCL Wiki, FTB Wiki and MC Servers Wiki
 * And of course, there should be some more promotion of MCSM and MCE subwikis here.
 * --TreeIsLife (talk) 12:38, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "this wiki is going to become incredibly cluttered with five different games in one wiki" -> What do you mean by "cluttered", and what actual problems does it cause?
 * "This tweet by Marc Watson (a developer for Dungeons) is also pretty telling" -> On a single occasion, a developer tweeted that, using internal wiki search on default settings, Dungeons entries come second after main game entries. To my knowledge, this is a very uncommon use case; the primary navigation method for readers is external search. It hardly justifies an extensive effort such as a wiki split. As well, if such an issue with internal search is worthy of consideration, there is no state of a wiki, or a pair of wikis, where no such issue arises. On a united wiki, either Dungeons or main game results come first. In case the wikis get split, people might still expect to find spin-off game content here, but would either find non-functional soft redirects, or nothing at all.
 * There are no other arguments presented in favor of an external wiki.
 * I believe there is no way to enable any "Hydra features" on new wikis. I am also not sure these are relevant, given how it's likely further unification would erase all differences in software configuration between Gamepedia-original and other wikis.
 * I am not sure a request to disable Discussions would be approved by staff. Please correct me if recent Discussions updates have changed things around this.
 * I am not sure why any "alliance" is suggested, what kind of structure it is supposed to have, what problems it is supposed to address to justify its operational costs, and why it is believed an alliance is necessary and effective at solving these problems.
 * I am not sure more promotion of abandonware is a useful idea, given the presumably lower reader interest in these topics; furthermore, I am not sure it is within the scope of this conversation, and regardless of that, without any specific ideas of "further promotion", no action can be taken.
 * Points against a separate wiki:
 * A separate wiki would require duplicating a significant part of the support structure (policies, admin and patrol teams, templates and modules, CSS and JS, abuse filters, and probably others). This would also require requests to staff to enable the relevant configuration (sitewide JS and abuse filters are disabled on new wikis by default; the future of mobile CSS is uncertain).
 * A separate wiki would not carry the authority of a merged wiki.
 * A unified wiki makes it easier for the editor community to be united and is less conducive to factionalism.
 * In particular, the technical and SEO considerations of moving existing, maintained, and non-duplicative content to a separate wiki should be evaluated with staff assistance.
 * --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 13:26, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * So few comments about your points
 * So few comments about your points


 * 3 - So what will happen, if we keep adding new namespaces. You see, there'll eventually come a time, when we won't be able to create a new NS due to some reason. That means will have to either a) remove the old subwikis or b) make separate wikis anyway. I am sure this isn't the last discussion about this, whenever the separate wikis will be created or not.
 * 4 - if you read a blog about FandomDesktop, you would find a section about the Gamepedia legacy badge, which "would be toggled by a staff setting". This staff setting actually does much more, than just add a badge. Thanks to it, this wiki can have FandomMobile.css to load at least, can have Gamepedia-specific extensions, user profiles and achievements.
 * 6 - it would be some sort of cooperation on a much higher level, than the current MCW-FTB partnership (which is just Xbony, who is BTW not in MCW server any longer). That should solve your issues 8.1 and 8.2.
 * 7 - for example, an anonnotice, which would list these wikis.
 * Not sure about the 5th point though. I hope it would be possible.--TreeIsLife (talk) 16:36, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 3 - I am not sure why you believe such a reason is more than hypothetical. As I understand, MediaWiki theoretically supports a lot more namespaces than we currently use; I suspect the most likely obstacle is Fandom staff choosing not to add further namespaces even upon our request, and even that seems very unlikely to me. As well, you're missing the option of using a non-namespace based content structure (such as a subpage-based one).
 * 4 - I find it very unlikely the "Gamepedia-original" setting would be toggled for a new wiki, even if that new wiki is a split-off part of a Gamepedia-original wiki. As I understand, this setting wouldn't be toggled for a new non-English wiki, for example.
 * 6 - I'm looking for a more detailed specification. Your baseline is "one person who isn't even in our Discord server anymore"; it's basically one step above "not even a concept we recognize". It wouldn't be hard to beat that.
 * 7 - That appears possible to implement in theory, though I doubt a banner is as effective as one might think; its effectiveness is likely to be undermined by banner blindness. Good social network outreach might be a better option, but I'm not sure we even have social network outreach.
 * --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 17:10, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

per AttemptToCalNil. BDJP (t 15:42, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

From an outside perspective (as is probably demonstrated by the fact that this is my first post on a talk page), I've found it to be a bit annoying to use the wiki with all the different games on it. For a single page search it works wonderfully, but as soon as I start to search on fandom rather than from an outside search engine it becomes a bit of a drag to sort through which game I want or don't want. Now, I'm quite sure that there is a way to search better, but I don't know how and I can't imagine most users would either. Let's just say it isn't the best user experience when the best way to search the site is by opening a new tab and searching straight from a search engine. Another example is the "random page" function; if I want to just browse to try and find something new about the game it takes 4-5 tries before I get a page about the game I want (in this case, Minecraft java).

I won't pretend I know anything about the logistics of moving a bunch of stuff around (again, new here) but the way it is now the user experience is rather limited. Even if we don't actually split the wiki, I wonder if there is a way to separate the pages more cleanly. Ishbosheth (talk) 19:26, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * For internal search, if you're going to the separate search page rather than just using the search pop-up, you should be able to use namespace selection by selecting "Advanced" (right of the search bar on the page) to exclude/include specific game-associated namespaces. The random page feature is known to support rather limited configuration. There is no "random in namespace", so the best you can do is probably Special:RandomInCategory/Minecraft_Dungeons (which still isn't all MCD articles; it might be possible to include all MCD articles in a separate hidden category to allow that special page to work without that limitation).
 * And yes, moving pages around en masse is rather discouraged, given how Google (and other external search engines) take their time to adapt to large-scale changes. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 20:54, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * This is what I mean by the wiki becoming cluttered. As Ishbosheth said, and as the tweet I linked to said (and I'm sure there's more than just these two people that have had problems with it), the multiple namespaces make searching internally a pain. If searching is already a problem it will be a much bigger problem if there is then also a Legends namespace, or a sixth namespace. Advanced options exist but they're seemingly not being used. Separate wikis solve the search problem, search engines may take some time to adapt, but once they have the problem will be solved. Overall I think that the work required to separate the Wikis would be worth it, the purpose of a wiki is to provide information for readers, creating separate wikis benefits the readers. While yes you are correct some users may be confused that namespace pages are no longer present, that is a minor and temporary problem that will solve itself compared to the current more permanent problem.


 * Also, in the case of Legends, we wouldn't have to move any pages if we were to create its own wiki now. It is inevitable that at least some separate wikis will have to be made in the future (putting an entire game under sub-pages doesn't sound like a good idea) as it is likely more spin-off games will be made in some years, so starting with Legends would be a good idea.


 * I also don't think this wiki should be a franchise wiki in the first place, none of these games are anything like one another, if these games were Minecraft 1 Minecraft 2 Minecraft 3 then it would make sense to have them on one wiki but they are not. Also, separate wikis solves the issue of all namespace pages having Minecraft GameName: in front of their name, obviously this is not a main point its just something to note. --HMPilatus (talk) 22:22, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I am not sure about the emphasis on internal search. Based on information I was previously presented by Fandom, it is mostly used by advanced users, and much less by regular readers. According to Fandom, most readers come from external search engines.
 * I suspect if advanced options are not used, but would have helped, it's generally because it's not very apparent that they can be used for that purpose.
 * For search engines, as I understand, the damage to rankings can be hard or impossible to reverse, especially given how association with an established wiki tends to contribute positively to rankings. (Conversely, lack of such association would contribute negatively.)
 * Is there any other way separate wikis benefit the readers other than internal search difficulties and random page selection quirks? (Both cause problems mostly for rather advanced use cases.)
 * I suspected the "lack of other-game pages" confusion to be permanent, rather than a short-term effect. As I thought, simply based on the idea that a "Minecraft" wiki would also cover spin-offs, people might reasonably expect to find spin-off content here, and if the wiki were to be split, that assumption would not hold.
 * What makes you think it's "inevitable" that new wikis will actually be required? The scenarios previously presented are purely hypothetical; there is nothing that suggests any probable hard requirement to create new wikis in the future.
 * Why do you call the namespace in front of the name an issue? --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 04:09, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Extra note for those who want random pages in a specific namespace: you can do this, somewhat, but it's a bit convoluted. See the code in Special:Diff/2215657? You could place something like that on a user subpage. However, it is cached internally, so refreshing the page will not change the list. If you, however, select the "Purge" option from the three-dot menu (on FandomDesktop) and confirm the page cache purge, you should see a new list. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 07:17, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

1.20 Guide
Can anyone create a 1.20 guide sandbox?119.236.254.162 15:00, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Update to the wiki to comply with COPPA
We (at Fandom) have a backend setting to mark wikis as being Wikis Directed to Children. On the advice of our Legal team, we’re going to be marking the Minecraft wiki with that designation.

Why this is being done:

In the United States, case law around COPPA (the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act) is getting stricter and as a US-based company we’re required to periodically make changes to our policies to comply. In reviewing the reasons for the ruling, our Legal team determined that the Minecraft wiki would be marked as a WDTC. This includes all language variants, as we’re a US-based platform regardless of the language of any particular wiki.

So, what will happen?

There will pretty much be almost no change, as most of it is on our backend. But the one thing you will notice is that we have to disable anonymous editing. Anon editing is disabled on Wikis Directed to Children because it opens up the option for anyone of any age to contribute, whereas account registration has an age gate.

--

We're doing the best we can on our side to be compliant with the law. I hope this makes sense to the team here and apologies for any inconvenience this might cause.

Itsjieyang (talk) 22:51, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * , per the previous unusual IP disabling incident at Minecraft_Wiki:Admin_noticeboard/Archive_37. LDM640145test (talk) 10:48, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I doubt community opposition to the change can make them reverse it. Per the announcement, this was done by advice of their legal team. As I understand, the message was meant solely to notify, not provide an opportunity to dispute the change. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 11:04, 25 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Even if they wont undo it you guys should at least discuss moving to another service, not that you "have" to but this wiki was made years ago when the service was wikia and focused on that, now its fandom and full of those extreme restrictions and focus on anything but being a wiki, a proper transfer carries over all content so dont sit back and just let the site decay if you feel it, at least give it a good discussion amongst yourselves and consider it seriously, cause other game wikis changed not too long ago due the terrid state they got into Zooboomaafer (talk) 01:33, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikia and Fandom is the same service. As people said, it is nearly inpossible, and Fandom knows this. No dev support, no community support and the support here isn't big either. --TreeIsLife (talk) 11:37, 4 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Disabling anonymous editing will also cut down on vandalism and other persistent problems. I agree that users should log in or sign up if they wish to contribute to this wiki. Bianche2006 (My Messages My Edits) 01:54, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I personally think we should wait until Simple English Wikipedia at least to disable anon editing before taking any action. McEndu (talk) 05:58, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Negative Gamepedia points?! 💀
Anyone know 'ow I somehow seem to have negative Gamepedia points? GK1H (P/T/C) 17:54, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Gamepedia points are a deprecated system. They're all but completely unmaintained by Fandom. I think negative points are a known issue, and I doubt Fandom will fix it in the foreseeable future. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 17:56, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Sad, if only they added a Fandom points system and merged the Gamepedia points system into it... GK1H (P/T/C) 17:58, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Just gonna check real quick me new signature. GK1H (P/T/C/MCF) 18:00, 26 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Entire CurseProfile is discontinued. Fandom is looking into replacing CurseProfile, since they have some problems with "Message walls" and "Blogs" tab. The points will lose its purporse, since logged-in users will soon have ad-free experiences, without need for Gamepedia PRO (which was granted for achieving 150 points in a month). Other things (like Gamepedia's notifications system) will get eventually merged with Fandom's one and achievements... nobody knows yet.--TreeIsLife (talk) 20:34, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion to your community
Hi, Im not an usual contributor of this wiki but would like to give a suggestion in case you guys are interested or unaware of the possibility: many other wikis have moved to other services over the last few years following wikias buyout and conversion into fandom, as it got much worse for the wiki side of things and they constantly get in the way or do extreme changes that users may not like, like the recent removal of anon editing etc. Maybe you guys dont want to or dont care but I think its important to at least discuss and be aware of how doable it is, since the community may want to at least discuss the possibility between yourselves, maybe vote or leave to mods consideration etc, as far as Im aware a proper transfer would keep all the content and allow more freedom to the userbase depending on which of the alternative services/sites/servers are chosen, I know many game related wikis moved on not too long ago and it was for the better, while other big ones have maintaned themselves off it from the start, so I dont think you should worry about losing functions etc as long as the move is well thought out, just think its REALLY worthy at least discussing it amongst yourselves as the service owner becomes less and less like wikipedia and more and more like some weird clickbait news site agregators who also censors everything. cheers Zooboomaafer (talk) 01:29, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I think your perspective of this platform is unnecessarily negative. It's not as bad as people like to believe. Jack McKalling (talk) 10:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


 * There's a number of concerns with moving, mainly that the Fandom wiki will be kept open and receive better visibility in Google search results than the new wiki, splitting up the traffic from readers and editors. We are unlikely to receive official support to direct people to the new wiki (as Terraria has, for example), and we also barely have a presence in the community to do the same. – Sonicwave talk  22:01, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Portable infoboxes

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * As of April 16, 2023, all infoboxes were replaced with portable ones, excluding some direct usages in user namespace--TreeIsLife (talk) 12:49, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

It is has been some years already, since Portable Infobox (PI) was first introduced, but since then they'd matured and we've seen a big trend recently. It seems like we're entering an age of PIs and them being an actual replacement for the table one.

PIs are generally much more user-friendly. While the format of infoboxes may look weird, it is highly customisable. Additionally, thanks to the fact it is actually a separate extension, it should load a bit faster than other infobox types. The ultimate thing though is the fact it is portable. It will show well on desktop, mobile and even smartwatches, if some MLG person would want to be that type of expert. Also, I want to point out we're not talking just about Fandom as the main source of PIs campaign. Other wiki farms have a community-run version available, which is the fork of the Fandom's one, while it was an open-source software. So if somebody would actually fork the wiki, they won't have to deal vendor lock.

And examples: Spanish Minecraft Wiki has already experimented with the portable infobox (and they use it aleready) and using it here shouldn't be that hard either.

So with that being said I think it is time to start thinking about infoboxes again.

While this is just a start of the journey, I want to open this discussion. I am sure this discussion won't be used much and will definetely stay here for time being (likely few months at least, maybe even years), but I want to have a place, where people, who may have no Discord account, can talk about the infoboxes and theit future. --TreeIsLife (talk) 16:44, 13 February 2023 (UTC)




 * I still have no idea how infoboxes work, if PIs would improve my experience with them then that would be great. I much prefer the designs of the infoboxes on the ES wiki, if those design elements can only be used with PIs then I'd much prefer using them as well. HMPilatus (talk) 17:58, 13 February 2023 (UTC)


 * as well, as I'm the one that is making the PIs on the Spanish Minecraft Wikiiki. The reason of why I'm doing then is because they're easier to maintain, as they use XML tags which are similar to HTML tags used on wikitext, so newer users just need to read the guide on Community Central and they already have a solid source. Another pro about them is the fact that they're already styled for mobile, so we don't have to use CSS for them there. And about desktop, they're easier to modify, and even if this wiki decides a different design than the Spanish's, it would still not require too much effort. One downside is the fact that they shouldn't change their width, but we on Spanish MCW increased the font size to make them more readable, and overall doesn't look bad. So, this is my comment, and summarizing, I support them because customizatiom, editor maintaining, and because they're a standard thus giving users familiarity with other wikis. --Supeika (talk) 18:20, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * .Drour1234 (talk) 20:22, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Request to allow strategy to be listed on MCD pages
I am requesting for it to be allowed that Minecraft Dungeons namespace pages can have tutorial information listed on them, without needing to be on a Tutorial subpage. As I understand, this is currently disallowed. This could be listed in a "Strategy" section of the page, however it could also be a sub-section of "Usage", I am unsure on it's location in the article currently. I only plan to add strategy information to item and enchantment pages. Please note that even if this is accepted, it will take me an incredibly long time to add all of this information. Of course, I hope others will help, but I find it likely that I'll end up doing this myself.

Reasoning:
 * 1) The official Minecraft Dungeons discord server is a better source of information for Dungeons than this wiki is, mostly. That is because in that server people can find out what enchantments they should put on their weapons, on this wiki, that information will never be found. A majority of the official discord and the MCD reddit is full of people asking what enchantments they should use, it is what people want to find out. If the Dungeons wiki is ever going to be good, it needs to have that information listed on it.
 * 2) Minecraft Dungeons functions very differently to regular Minecraft, there isn't much you can say about strategy for the netherite sword for example, but for Minecraft Dungeons, paragraphs can be written about recommended gear and strategies for just one item, and many people have done just that. The rules on tutorial information should be different for the two games as the games are very different.

The only rebuttal to this request I can think of is that the strategy information is subjective, and this wiki seems very against showing any hint of opinion on articles. I think my two points already explain why it should be allowed despite it being subjective. I will also note that I will not be getting this strategy information from purely my own experience, I will be getting this information from experienced community members. By that I mean, the strategy information listed will be as close to "objective" as it can get. HMPilatus (talk) 22:04, 3 March 2023 (UTC)


 * : I have my own set of issues with how tutorials themselves here are difficult to find, but in general, I this proposal. About being subjective, I agree it's difficult to find a balance on a strategy section, but we can ask players how they do something, what is the best results they got, and use that on the wiki, and thus it becomes less subjective and more objective, based on actual in-game results. --Supeika (talk) 18:37, 8 March 2023 (UTC)


 * . Strong oppose, in fact. This wiki used to be considered "official" until Microsoft objected. However, I would like to see it continue to remain a source of verifiable factual information about the game, not tutorial advice because that goes down the slippery slope into subjective opinions rather than facts. Even in the base game tutorials I periodically have to pare down ridiculous opinions given to defeat a monument or whatever (no, you don't need a Netherite sword) and many tutorials are still full of such crap.
 * The other problem with tutorials is that they tend to become a magnet for people who want to promote their YouTube channels by posting videos. We have stricter guidelines for videos in articles, but if we start allowing tutorial advice in MCD articles, again, we're sliding down a slippery slope to articles becoming nothing more than YouTube directories. A separate group of Tutorial pages would address the two points made in the proposal above.
 * Relevant tutorials can always be linked from the information articles, as they are in the base game (for example, Tutorials/Iron golem farming is linked from Iron Ingot). Amatulic (talk) 14:46, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I believe the problem of "becoming a magnet for people who want to promote their Youtube channels by posting videos" would be non-existent to be blunt, either that or it would be so easy to combat that it would be a non-issue. Same for "becoming nothing more than Youtube directories", that's a very vague phrase that doesn't mean much in reality. Do tutorials make things a Youtube directory?


 * As I mentioned, and as you have not mentioned, Minecraft Dungeons is a wildly different game to Minecraft. When two games are extremely different, I think it makes sense for the policies on the information shown to be different between the games. Yes, information about needing a sword for a monument is quite silly and not needed, however Minecraft Dungeons is a game built on gear and strategy, so strategy information is more valuable for Minecraft Dungeons than it is for Minecraft. And the strategy listed would be far more detailed than your example.


 * I see no need for all of the strategy information to go to tutorial subpages. That would mean hundred of pages would have to be created. If a reader wants to find out what gear works well with a certain enchantment, they're going to expect that information to be on the respective pages. The opinionated information would also be clearly marked in a section all about opinionated strategy, so its not going to get confused with facts. A lot of these MCD pages are also quite small, namely the enchantment pages, and could do with more information.


 * The Minecraft Dungeons Wiki will continue to be a subpar source of information about the game unless strategy information is allowed. I say that as someone who's worked for months on the namespace, someone who is active in the community, and someone who has played the game for hundreds of hours. That opinion also comes from people in the community, namely some of the most experienced players of this game. - Harristic (talk) 16:30, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * To be blunt, I remain unconvinced that article pages won't start getting filled with subjective opinions rather than factual information about the game. The fact that Dungeons is different from the base game is immaterial. If the content of articles becomes becomes subjective advice and tips, that's a degradation of quality regardless of how different the games are.
 * It is also surprising to me to claim that youtube video pollution would be a "non-issue", when it most certainly has been an issue that has not been easy to combat in the base game tutorial pages. I say this because I know, I've done my share of work cleaning up some pages. On the other hand, we do have a video policy for articles, which would help mitigate such problems in article space.
 * I wouldn't object to starting out small, like you suggest having a section in gear and enchantment articles showing relationships between gear and enchantments. I would draw the line at advice on the "best" way to defeat a mob or complete a mission, however. Amatulic (talk) 04:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * If it would increase wiki's usage, OK. But I still have my own feelings about quality of tutorials on wiki, but if somebody thinks he'll fix it (and he'll do so), then we may try. --TreeIsLife (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Response for Suggestion Request
Hello everyone, If you see a game suggestion in any talk page, you should respond by being polite, redirecting them, explaining why, and reminding them that this is a colabrative Community project and that mojang developers do not often go through this wiki and may not look or see your comment. Please be supportive and kind, no matter your opinion. An example of a correct response is: "Hi there, if you would like a suggestion to be added to the game itself please go to to Mojang's official suggestions page here, continuing to make suggestions here is futile and unlikely to be heard, this wiki is not run by Mojang, Microsoft or Affiliates. The minecraft wiki is a collaborative community project."

You may copy the good example ^, don't get close to the incorrect response v.

A example of in incorrect response: "I think you are stupid and this suggestion is horribly bad and I will delete all of this suggestion." Or: "Honestly this Idea would never survive and if it did it would be ignored by all of mojang"

Thanks, MinerMinerMain – Unsigned comment added by MinerMinerMain (talk • contribs). Sign comments with

Add "Work in progress from split" template for pages that have been created from a split that need the Work In Progress note
This will help people know that they should grab more information to finalize the splitting.

Task in the Pending Tasks page --Ewrt1 (talk) 02:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)


 * That can be accompished by, no need for separate template. --TreeIsLife (talk) 16:05, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Suggestions for new bureaucrats
Due to Nixinova's recent retirement, and Madminecrafter12's inactivity, I believe it would be good to promote an admin (or two) to the role of bureaucrat. While I am creating this discussion mostly to allow others to give suggestions, I'd like to suggest to be promoted, I don't really have a list of reasons for this, I just think they deserve the role. - Harristic (talk) 17:29, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind a new bureaucrat. I wouldn't mind that bureaucrat to be Magiczocker. I'm open to other options as well. I'm not really saying "support", it's more "if you choose to go that way, you can have my opinion in advance". --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 18:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * as long as Magic is OK with that. I am generally very satisfied with his work, and I don't see any blocking factors for bureaucrat rights to be granted. --TreeIsLife (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I have indeed been quite inactive and will probably end up resigning soon as well, and I definitely think that having at least one active bureaucrat would be a good idea. It would be better for more active users than me to decide who should be promoted, but if there is a consensus for it to be Magiczocker, that would certainly be fine with me. Madminecrafter12 (talk) 18:27, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * If you are also going to resign, I think a second admin should be promoted so that the responsibilities of bureaucrat is not placed on one person. But then the list of admins becomes quite small, although I'm not sure if that's really an issue. I am not sure. - Harristic (talk) 19:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for suggesting me as a future bureaucrat. I don't have a problem with it. – Magiczocker (talk) 18:54, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I support Magiczocker as new bureaucrat as well and I would additionally also suggest Amatulic. Both are active and have previous experience with the RevDel tool due to being a member of SOAP or an administrator on Wikipedia respectively. - MarkusRost (talk) 22:08, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I can do the bureaucrat tasks. I don't expect there would be much call for it on this wiki, however, except to promote editors to administrators. Amatulic (talk) 14:40, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I you (Amatulic) becoming bureaucrat. Also, to respond to what you said on the admin noticeboard: if an admin with experience in Minecraft Dungeons is truly something people want, I'd be happy to have the role, if that is supported by others. - Harristic (talk) 16:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Magic and Amatulic for bureaucrats. I haven't been active enough to have an opinion on Harristic's proposal for admin, but haven't seen anything so far that would cause me any concerns. The topic of promoting admins might require a separate (larger) discussion though. – Sonicwave talk  06:16, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Experimental snapshots and how to handle experimental data packs

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * Halting this project. Instead, I would like to take a time and talk about this in a more distant future (maybe in a year). Currently, I've already did point 2 and I'll change all Combat Tests pages and experimental snapshots to include this information, but the point 3 got reverted and point 1 requires more than a one vote here --TreeIsLife (talk) 14:40, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Since it is possible the wiki will become messy after Mojang's mysterious moves, I have few proposals and suggestions.

1) I think that instead of classifing experimental snapshots as experimantal snapshots, they should be classified as "Snapshots requiring manual installation". This is because I guess they won't release more of the experimental snapshots and we also need to solve issues with integrating it with Combat tests. So I propose to change their classification into "Snapshots" in infoboxes.

2) I would suggest creating a field in infobox, which will tell, if the version is installable from launcher.

3) My final proposal is that in "JE versions", we should include all versions, which have an enable-able experimental data packs. (3.5) We may also create a subpages to the versions with just experimental data packs additions/changes.

What do you think of it? --TreeIsLife (talk) 13:42, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * all of them. We need to clean up the wiki and make it less complex for regular user. --TreeIsLife (talk) 13:42, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Suggestions for new administrator
As discussed in, we promote 1 or 2 admins to bureaucrat soon. All current admins don't know Minecraft Dungeons that well, and User:Amatulic suggested that we need a new admin on the admin noticeboard. I suggest User:Harristic as new administrator, because he has experience with the game and is the most active in the Minecraft Dungeons namespace. My only point against it is that he started on the wiki 5 months ago. – Magiczocker (talk) 20:02, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * for admin rights. I would content moderator rights though. I am not sure, if you had any wiki experience beforehand, since 5 months is not that long of wiki experience for giving somebody admin rights, such as blocking, not at least on the 2nd biggest Fandom wiki. I know you do lot of edits, and generally active, but getting that many rights at once (considering you're not even a patroller) is much in my opinion, especially after my experience of getting admin rights and the issues I had to overcome. --TreeIsLife (talk) 20:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't think not having patroller should be a blocking factor, considering that there's no formal process to obtain it and you have to be noticed and suggested by one of the admins or other editors (which might take a while – there haven't been any patroller promotions for more than 2 years). And we've argued against adding content mods (here and here, for reference) on the basis that it's similar enough to admin and would just add extra layers of bureaucracy. – Sonicwave talk  20:53, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The links are the same though
 * But my comment is basically that I think people shouldn't just jump off the cliff with admin rights and "manage the wiki". That's not the correct aproach. However, if Harristic would use it effectively and correctly (and I mean, I cannot say that he won't be a good admin because he joined 5 months), then I may rethink this decision in the future.
 * Also, cms and admins are not that similar. Content mods can't view deleted revs, can't block people, can't edit interface and can't nuke pages (just to name a few). Actually, when you compare admins with content mods, content mods have a lot of lsss admin rights. But I respect the decision.--TreeIsLife (talk) 21:09, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I was the last person promoted to patroller BTW, which was all the way back in January of 2021. I really never knew why we stopped doing patroller promotions anymore, seeing how it could serve as a junior admin role. I Harristic receving the patroller role, but he lacks the tenure (only started editing in late 2022) and potentially some moderation skills required for being an admin. Just want to point out that many of the people promoted to admin were patrollers at the time of their promotion. James Haydon (talk) 21:27, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The main reason I’d want to receive admin rights, aside from having an admin with MCD experience, is so I could delete files. It would be massively helpful with my Minecraft Dungeons File Renaming project, due to the amount of duplicate files and unneeded redirects present. Of course, another admin can do this, but I think it’d be easier if a person who knows the context of these files were to do it. Also I think you being the last person to be promoted to patroller, two years ago, would explain why I’m not patroller.


 * However, I won’t push for a promotion if it’s not supported, and it doesn’t seem it is. Especially since, if I’m being honest, it feels like Magic suggested me as a “thank you” for me suggesting him as bureaucrat. I still appreciate the suggestion though of course. - Harristic (talk) 09:20, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just put a deletion template on the files and an administrator will delete them. There was a big backlog of pending deletions when I became administrator, but now the backlog is quite small. Amatulic (talk) 06:57, 4 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing one of the links is supposed to be to Minecraft_Wiki_talk:Community_portal/Archive_34#RfC:_More_admins? . SLScool 21:30, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup thanks, I've corrected the link. – Sonicwave talk  22:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * On the topic of patrollers, I was the first user who was granted the patroller role, actually. As a patroller you go through the content, and click a button to mark the revision as reviewed by you. And if it was a bad edit, you'd revert it or rollback the user (there's some criterias and guidelines I've used, but I don't know if these were substantiated anywhere). As a patroller you also get the autopatrol right, so others don't need to patrol you in return. It is along these lines that I've always interpreted the patroller role as a "content moderator" all along, because I moderate the content, as opposed to users. Therefor I also don't think there is a need for a new "content moderator" role, we already have this one. In fact, now that there are no IP edits anymore, I think the patroller role could get more effective use out of it. Because before, it was a daunting, tedious and overburdened task to go through and judge all IP edits, but now it could be more feasible to do. We need the patrollers to take away that burden from the admins, and I'm both proud that there were still more than a handful patrollers selected in the end, however also sad that this stopped a couple of years ago. Maybe we can get the role off the ground again with new admins promoting the best people for it.
 * Personally I'm still not really active enough to consider myself a candidate for an admin role, and for the same reason I don't think I could give a useful opinion about other candidates. But I do believe a new one or two would be nice to have. Jack McKalling (talk) 10:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Italicize the "Bedrock Edition"
It is now the official name and should be changed.--Pneuma01 (talk) 14:44, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * changing the italicization site-wide. --TreeIsLife (talk) 14:48, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * - Harristic (talk) 14:51, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * BDJP (t 14:53, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * In the edit page of Bedrock Edition, there is a comment stating that "Bedrock Edition should not be italicized unless logo subtitle is added." ManyOursOfFun (talk) 15:47, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * - it's a simple fix, just changing the In and IN templates would fix most of the formatting across the wiki. We would have to change the style guide and the Bedrock Edition article too. Amatulic (talk) 06:59, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * And the Main Page too.--Pneuma01 (talk) 00:30, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Should we archive MCW:TASK?
In my opinion, MCW:TASK seems to be a redundant page to other ways of doing things, such as CP, AN or Discord, where we have something similar as part of "wiki requests" channel. Also, it isn't that active and seeing how inactive the last year was (for the wiki as a whole), I don't think we should further split similar discussion to similar pages.

I would like this page to be archived, with a message box directing users to either CP, AN or talk pages. --TreeIsLife (talk) 19:59, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd archiving it. While I don't have any strong opinions on the purpose of the page, all of the discussions on the page are in a white box, or a very light green. And all of the text is a very faint grey, instead of the black text you'd expect on a white background. I'm using dark mode. I'd prefer we archive it and have the discussions be on pages where reading isn't difficult and painful. - Harristic (talk) 20:14, 9 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The page wasn't designed with dark mode in mind, so I can understand why it doesn't look the best for those who use dark mode. To be fair, this is a styling problem and not a good argument against the whole usage of this page. If there are reasons why the page stays, then those styling problems need to be addressed separately. It was a lot of work to get it to this stage, there were several phases of development prior to what it is now, and together with others I've worked hard on making it work including even with the help of the wiki manager of the time. It's a shame it didn't get used so much while I became inactive. I'm aware that other platforms became more prominent such as discord's wiki requests. I would not know how they work, as it happened during my inactivity. Does it really cover everything that this page was meant to cover?
 * The purpose of this page or its successive system, is that it becomes possible to delay or relay tasks to other people, that are too heavy or tedious for you. Tasks that you know need to be done but you don't know if you're the right one to do it. So other editors who are more capable and appropriate for it can choose to do it from a catalogue, without you having to find out first whom to relay the task to. Supposedly you notice a problem somewhere, and you know how that problem should be approached, but you need help in making it happen. Then this system is there so you can leave the task in a documented state, without having to go out and get into contact (or even find) the one who can take on the task. A sort of "leave it to others and forget" kind of deal. And as the other half of the cooperation, the system offers a way for people who don't know what to do but want to help, to find a task they might be interested in doing with instructions on how to do it. A kind of "what shall I do, oh this might be fun" deal.
 * So the system takes care of both sides of the communication problems that would arise from endless wiki discussions or votes or ideas that get lost due to people becoming inactive, or stalling discussions because they don't get to a clear decision. If both of these two halves of the system are already entirely accomplished with the discord or other alternative systems for the wiki, then I guess the page indeed serves no purpose anymore. But I can't say or tell whether this is the case, so I wanted to explain in full here what the page really is for. It would be a shame if all my work on this gets wasted because people didn't understood the purpose. Or if some other system were used in its stead, which still not addressed all of these points. Jack McKalling (talk) 13:32, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The styling has just been adjusted to be compatible with dark mode. Could you confirm this is indeed what you had in mind, Harristic? Jack McKalling (talk) 05:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That looks infinitely better. That was my only issue with the page, so I no longer really have an opinion on this discussion. - Harristic (talk) 22:19, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The dark mode issue just pointed out how inactive the page has become. If the page was needed, every second link on this wiki would link there and dark mode would be fixed. I would say that there is no "actual replacement", as it's inpossible. However, what I say is that lot of the stuff have been replaced with Discord and rest stuff goes to "other pages" (ex. talk pages).


 * I know the idea is actually very good and useful, though our wiki is just too inactive to have even more community splits, especially at a time people are migrating from talk pages to Discord, and as I haven't seen many people being interested in MCW:TASK. Before this proposal, I've visited that page 3 times and always felt the same, as not much of activity has happened there, even though 2020 and 2021 were one of the biggest years in wiki history.


 * In the end, if people think this page is important, I would say the best option would be to add its functionality to other page, such as MCW:CP page, as for me its not ideal to have lot of places to discuss nearly the same thing, while few months ago the wiki had the lowest number of editors in at least a decade. --TreeIsLife (talk) 20:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Well those things may be true, but I don't agree that people using Discord instead of the wiki for important discussions is a good thing. I was under the impression that it is still stimulated to keep important discussions on the wiki and that is the main reason why the task page is here. That its functionality could be attached to existing pages would be a different discussion. I like the idea, but at the same time I feel it's better to keep a single page dedicated to these tasks, considering how large it could become, and finding stuff on it is easier if there isn't also unrelated discussions on it. But if the scope of this system is increased to fit the discussions typical for the CP, somehow, if that would work, then I guess it could be merged there. But I'm very sceptical about how and whether that would work. There're a lot of task properties, such as who posted, who is working on it, categories, all of which has nothing to do with general discussions that aren't tasks. It would need a complete overhaul to make it work in a bigger scope, but I would support that if there are great ideas for it. Jack McKalling (talk) 09:25, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

How'd I get so many negative wiki points?
I haven't looked at my own profile in at least a year or so. Today I looked at and in the top right corner there's a huge negative number. Where did that come from? I recall I used to be up there among the top 10-20. Amatulic (talk) 22:14, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a glitch that started occurring July of last year, where anyone who's reverted edits at any point would get a large decrease in their total WikiPoints. Fandom is aware of the issue, and there's currently no plans to fix it since the system that WikiPoints rely on is deprecated and will eventually be either removed or replaced – JEC talk @ 22:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I see. So I guess I built up that large negative number by reverting a lot of unconstructive edits. Amatulic (talk) 23:18, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That bug description is not fully correct. It is intended that the person being reverted loses the points for that edit again. However the bug is, that everyone who ever edited the page gets their points for their most recent edit on the page removed, instead of just the user actually being reverted. It also means that multiple reverts on the same page can cause you to lose the points for your edit on that page multiple times as well. That's why even long inactive users are getting a lot of negative points and why it's more noticeable for users who edited a lot of different pages with bigger edits worth more points. MarkusRost (talk) 23:35, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Where should be the article about the wiki?

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * History part of the page has been moved to MCW:History and the history section on original page has been shortened. If approved on MCW Discord, MCW:About will redirect to Minecraft Wiki (website) --TreeIsLife (talk) 20:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Since yesterday, the wiki officially has a page about this wiki, Minecraft Wiki (website). On Discord, I've been initially suggested to move it onto a separate page (so not as part of MCW:About), and since the only suggestion was "Minecraft Wiki (website)", I've moved it there. However, there were some people who wanted to have it as a part of MCW:About, which made me realize there may be a need for a community vote.

Additionally, I would like to discuss that if we'll keep the page about the wiki unmoved, should we convert MCW:About back to a legal notice or outright delete/archive it? --TreeIsLife (talk) 16:43, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's a good idea to delete MCW:About. That would make its original history not visible to anyone who isn't an admin. My suggestion: redirect MCW:About to the mainspace article. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 18:25, 13 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I think Minecraft Wiki (website) should be moved to a MCW:History page. 95% of that page is history. The only thing on that page that isn't about history is the statistics section, but I think that could just be removed and put elsewhere without consequence. Its a long page specifically for documenting the wiki's history, "About" or "(website)" is too broad of a name.


 * I support making MCW:About a redirect to the mainspace article, as ATCN said. I see no reason for the page to be deleted. I think if a legal notice page is needed, it could be under a better name. - Harristic (talk) 19:49, 13 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Personally I think the page goes into far too much detail to be appropriate for article space. Readers generally won't be interested in our discussions, when we introduced certain guidelines or templates (or even understand what templates are), or the actions of individual community members. We also don't have or allow content on other communities, so seeing a list of all admins and the wiki's internal processes described in such detail seems in conflict with that.
 * I still think the page could be pared down regardless (e.g. the introduction of "Minetips" and namespace aliases don't seem that noteworthy) and that there doesn't need to be as much focus on discussions, just the major changes resulting from them. But I'd be much more open to documenting "wiki meta" content on a MCW: page, whereas for mainspace I think a page like Minecraft Forum would be more appropriate: a general overview of how it works and a brief history of significant changes like the move to Fandom. Discussions and content restructuring are part of how the wiki normally works anyway, whereas migrating hosts is much more visible and receives much more attention in the larger MC community. – Sonicwave talk  23:35, 13 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I've created a smaller history page. It is missing lot of stuff, but I've made it into less than 5kb. --TreeIsLife (talk) 22:41, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I think this smaller page would be good to put on Minecraft Wiki (website) or wherever that gets moved. But the more detailed version should still exist at a MCW:History page in my opinion. A page dedicated to history should be detailed in its documentation of the history, of course it can be cleaned up and modified, but being detailed is not bad. - Harristic (talk) 20:25, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Minecraft Dungeons Tutorials
I was looking at Minecraft's seas of tutorials and then looked at MCD's tutorial section. Nearly blank. While I like whomever put up that farming section, shouldn't there be more tutorials other than the level guide and button controls, which shouldn't even really belong? There used to be a couple for the levels, for example to get poison-enchanted daggers for Redstone Mines. Could we try to bring back helpful pages like that? Some possible ideas include item suggestions for different levels, one for how to unlock the secret levels step-by-step, ways to beat bosses, etc. Orbisculating Seaborgium (talk) 15:45, 22 April 2023 (UTC)Orbisculating Seaborgium
 * Go ahead and start writing a tutorial! I've written a few myself. As they say on Wikipedia: be bold!
 * Just try to bear in mind that tutorial pages should not rely on YouTube videos. Personally I prefer descriptive text, diagrams, and screenshots. Too many tutorial pages are basically YouTube directories to videos, which were added to the tutorials by people with a conflict of interest. Amatulic (talk) 15:33, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Would be greatly appreciated. I’m genuinely surprised that no one has bothered to make tutorials for dungeons despite it being out for nearly 3 years now. I guess making tutorials take me a lot more effort than I thought. Wish you the best of luck when making them! James Haydon (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Closing and merging wiki projects

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Two years ago, I've tried to close and merge some organization and research wiki projects. While some of them were closed and merged, since then, more of them were created and if I counted correctly, we have 26 of them, some of them are duplicates.


 * 1) Imgur Archiving
 * 2) Minecraft Dungeons File Renaming
 * 3) Minecraft in education
 * 4) Screenshot Minecraft Versions
 * 5) Minecraft in schools
 * 6) Screenshot Fixing
 * 7) Rewrite for Style
 * 8) Version cleanup
 * 9) Standardize and rewrite tutorials
 * 10) Userboxes standardization
 * 11) Redirect cleanup
 * 12) Renaming
 * 13) Cleanup open tags
 * 14) Capitalization fixing
 * 15) Individual Biome Pages
 * 16) Refactoring edition specific information
 * 17) Texture Documentation Cleanup
 * 18) Templates
 * 19) Template documentation cleanup
 * 20) Gallery organization
 * 21) Minecraft: Story Mode Wiki
 * 22) Wiki videos
 * 23) Categorization
 * 24) Structure Blueprints
 * 25) History cleanup
 * 26) Add more screenshots

So, here's my view of what should and what shouldn't close


 * , a new project
 * 1)  - I am not sure why I haven't suggested to close this project in 2021. But either way, it was an unsuccessful try on getting even kids to read the wiki. I don't oppose creating "Simplified pages", but that's for another proposal.
 * 2)  - same as 3. The fact something if for "creative mode" and something for "survival mode" is not that important for having 2 separate projects, which are basically dead
 * 3)  - a old project, which tries to solve a maintenance stuff. That's like having a wiki project for fixing stubs, creating WIP pages, fixing references or modules, because there is some "category". Can be merged with 20, if necessary.
 * 4)  - while a dead project, may have some usefulness
 * 5)  - A dead project for just too long, with lot of the page's changes. JE is done, BE is partially done too.
 * 6)  - I just won't try to close my own project
 * 7)  - I've took care of the final pages under "Template:Userbox/", and that was basically everything, that had to be done. There are some userboxes in user pages, but those were mostly to be used by that user (or at least it seems).
 * 8)  - WIP project for ages now (7 years)
 * 9)  - completed project
 * 10)  - the reason is no longer true. The skin has been replaced by Hydra and later FandomDesktop, which uses absolutely different layout. Additionally, nowadays, it is being handled by either MediaWiki or Fandom, by inserting the additional tags.
 * , but I would be happy to merge it once
 * 1)  - completed in my opinion
 * 2)  with above
 * , but should be much broader (include renders)
 * 1)  - Somehow, it got active again (MCSM for the win ig)
 * 2)  with 20.
 * 1)  with above
 * , but should be much broader (include renders)
 * 1)  - Somehow, it got active again (MCSM for the win ig)
 * 2)  with 20.
 * 1)  with 20.
 * 1)  with 20.
 * 1)  with 20.
 * 1)  with 20.
 * 1)  with 20.

--TreeIsLife (talk) 18:48, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * While I don't have much opinion on specific projects, I do agree that projects that have been inactive for a substantial amount of time should be closed. Inactivity for over a year should just be an automatic close anyway, unless there's a reason for it to remain open. - Harristic (talk) 14:57, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * New editor here so I don't have opinions on everything listed, but I will say that I have been working on the screenshot fixing project recently so its not a dead project imo. I don't think it should just be closed, although I'm not opposed to merging it with 20. Biggest issue with that project is that some of the images in the fixing categories are correctly labeled but shouldn't be updated (i.e some images in the "outdated textures" category are images of specifically old stuff, specific version quirks, etc...). It's not entirely clear what should be done with those images and it makes it hard to sort through to find the images that actually need updating, but I digress.
 * The only other project I have opinions on would be the wiki videos project. That project is dead, no doubt, but I do have a quesiton about the archival process of projects. I would closing it as long as there would still be a way to access the pages somehow. The reason being I can see that project possibly being revived at some point and being able to learn from the mistakes of previous attempts would be benificial. -Ishbosheth (talk) 18:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * True, though I still feel of the Screenshot fixing project as a maintenance category. Having a project with 6 categories, each with 10 files and call it a wiki projects isn't the biggest win, but if people would agree to keep, it I'll do so.
 * The "archival" process is just slapping an inactive notice and moving the project under the "Completed projects". That's archival process. No deletion, no other changes to the page (except that notice). The project could be revived through some proposal, of course. --TreeIsLife (talk) 18:38, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Loading All Items for a Long List, Instead of Multiple Pages
Is it possible to load a single web page showing all the pages it links to, rather than having the list broken across multiple pages? For example, the list of Java versions spans 4 or 5 pages - can the entire list be displayed on a single page instead? (Even the printable PDF stops at the list's breakpoint.)

The second and following pages have a pagefrom query key to tell the page where to start (e.g. https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Java_Edition_versions?pagefrom=Java+Edition+1.4.1#mw-pages for the second page). Is there a key to tell the page to display everything, or to tell it not to break the list apart?

Thanks.

Norb333 (talk) 20:13, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I asked over on Wikipedia, and the short answer is no, it's built into the wiki software. More detailed answer here. Amatulic (talk) 15:45, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Pitcher plant

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
 * --TreeIsLife (talk) 15:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Is the Pitcher Plant in the Bedrock Edition? – Unsigned comment added by Jellyfish4149 (talk • contribs) at 14:28, 4 May 2023 (UTC). Sign comments with
 * Yes, it is (Pitcher Plant) --TreeIsLife (talk) 15:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

What happened?
I returned to the MCPE Wiki for the first time since 2015, and everything is admin-locked and all the users have left? Can someone fill me in on what happened while I was gone?

Wither28 11:20, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Fandom bought Gamepedia (its competitor that had the big Minecraft Wiki), started a project to merge duplicate wikis that existed on both Fandom and Gamepedia, and some Minecraft wikis on Fandom were archived in favor of this (Gamepedia-original) wiki. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 11:23, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Oh. Are any of the OG users (Darth, db aka Zach, Pigman, MasterofMelons, 707 etc.) still around? 12:03, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * None of these names sound familiar to me, so I guess they're not, but I can't be sure. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 12:05, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Not familiar to me either. Do note that your signature doesn't work anymore, a lot has changed. You probably need to change it to something else (same happened to me, but I removed my old sig). Jack McKalling (talk) 13:34, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I think some of the admins may have caused some confusion. Basically, MCBE Wiki has been closed in favor of this wiki's rapidly expanding documentations on Bedrock Edition. It wasn't part of the project to merge duplicate wikis, thought it uses the crossover banner (for whatever reason). However, it is true it was influenced by acquisition of Gamepedia by Fandom.


 * I won't be able to substitute the template, so I've replaced it with a normal link to your user page.


 * When it comes to those users, only person I've heard of is Darth as they are/were admin on MCSM Wiki. --TreeIsLife (talk) 14:57, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Consider moving off Fandom
Fandom is a terrible Web site and you should move off it into another Wiki host.--A n t i F a n d o m (talk) 19:15, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * First, even if someone creates second Minecraft Wiki independent of Fandom, Fandom would retain its copy of the wiki because it's monetized by means of advertisements. Second, I don't believe it's good manners to call any person or entity "terrible" except insofar as you are able to support this opinion with specific factual statements.
 * However, I'm not saying that disapproval of Fandom is inherently wrong; nor am I saying that Minecraft Wiki definitely shouldn't fork (even if I believe it probably shouldn't). --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 20:13, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Leaving Fandom has definitely been considered, and it has been discussed for multiple years. However it is not something that can be done so simply. Personally I would love to see Minecraft Wiki leave Fandom, but your comment here only makes that side of the argument look worse. If you want to convince people of your point you must give thought out arguments. -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  20:24, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * See also previous discussions (1, 2) and a community AMA on Reddit we did discussing this topic. Of course, the situation has changed a bit since then but most of the major concerns still stand. – Sonicwave talk  20:25, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Move to a different wiki host?
Should the Minecraft Wiki fork to another wiki host? This idea has been brought up many times, including in the topic directly above, but recently it has been discussed at length on Discord and has a serious enough possibility that it warrants an on-wiki discussion.

Many editors have voiced some discontent with the current situation on Fandom, including, but not limited to:
 * Degraded logged-out reader experience, due in part to the large number of ads (including ads inserted in the middle of wiki content to look like part of it), the obtrusive yellow Fandom navigation bar, and popups, including one asking readers to confirm their age to personalize the ads shown
 * Fandom prioritizing its own interests and engagement over those of wiki communities. Examples include:
 * File pages being made inaccessible to logged-out users in order to boost Google rankings (SEO). While not affecting most readers, this makes it impossible for readers to view file histories (a basic functionality available on other MediaWiki wikis), and also hides the link to download the original-quality versions of images, as opposed to compressed versions
 * Adding features like Fandom-created quizzes to the top of pages, often citing vague statistics on "engagement" as justification
 * The aforementioned yellow sidebar, which was justified as reinforcing Fandom's branding, but looks out of place on the wiki, is uncustomizable, and was added without discussion or opportunities for feedback
 * Adding links to other wikis (some of which cover questionable topics) and unrelated Fandom articles in places like the Fan Feed and full-page search results
 * Fandom unilaterally converting several pages on the unofficial McDonald's wiki to effectively become an ad campaign, including the main page. The only communication about this beforehand were messages left on the admins message walls (both of which are inactive and didn't give express agreement), vaguely mentioning partnerships but not the full extent of the changes. While perhaps unlikely to happen on this wiki, these actions have been viewed with significant concern by the community.
 * A sentiment that the wiki has lost some respect in the larger Minecraft community due to the previous factors. Complaints about the wiki or Fandom appear every now and then on various discussion spaces like r/Minecraft and various Discord servers, often ascribing to Fandom unrelated factors like misinformation or believing that the wiki has actually lost information after the move. Of course, these vocal opinions do not necessarily reflect the general view of the readerbase as people with less negative opinions are less likely to speak up.
 * A sense that the number of editors and overall activity has declined after moving to Fandom, even before logged-out editing was disabled. It would be nice to get some hard numbers on this if possible.
 * Various minor glitches and loss of features that affect editor workflow, such as the loss of CirrusSearch removing the ability to search within subpages (including talk page archives) and namespace shortcuts like "MCW:TALK" not working in the search bar
 * The very idea of being independent and not under a wiki farm is also seen as favorable by some

Of course, switching hosts will not be a simple task. Notably, Fandom's forking policy requires the current wiki to be left intact and any links to the new wiki to not be displayed for longer than the first two weeks. This means that we will basically be creating a new wiki with the same content and revision history brought over, and moving the editor-base to the new wiki (assuming the community is aware of and agrees to the move). The Fandom wiki, while no longer having its existing editors, will continue to remain up without any indication that it's moved, competing with and likely outranking the new wiki in Google search results due to Fandom's high SEO.

We will therefore have to promote the new wiki via other means. As of now we don't interact with the larger community much nor have official support. Given the general negative sentiment towards Fandom in the community, it's likely that they will help spread the news and redirect people to the new wiki, but I'm not sure how much this would help. Some editors have also suggested contacting content creators to help with promotion.

The choice of host is another important factor, and we have two main options here. One is wiki.gg, a wiki farm run by former Gamepedia staff members where some wikis such as Terraria have moved to. The other option is semi-independent hosting, where a separate entity manages backend tasks including hosting and finances (e.g. negotiating with advertisers), but leaves the wiki on its own in other regards. This gives us greater independence than being on a wiki farm (e.g. greater leeway to customize the wiki skin), while putting more responsibilities on community members as opposed to sharing it with the staff of a wiki farm, but not nearly as much as if the wiki were to host itself. The two hosts that have reached out to us are the host of Bulbapedia; and ABXY, a host of several wikis including Inkipedia, StrategyWiki and Zelda Wiki.

A rough overview of various considerations that have been discussed so far and their status on different platforms are outlined at User:MarkusRost/fork and this Google spreadsheet, but of course that is not a complete outline of the discussion.

So the main questions to discuss are, should the wiki fork and if so, where should it fork to? – Sonicwave talk  05:49, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * To summarize some of the additional reasons and concerns with forking that have been given below in this discussion:


 * Lack of transparency from Fandom, replacement of the Gamepedia brand with Fandom's (and its effect on community reputation), loss of features during the migration, and toxic company culture (according to Glassdoor reviews and layoffs of Fandom and former Gamepedia employees) have also been cited as factors contributing to the negative outlook of this platform.
 * As Google hides duplicate content in search results, a large number of pages on the new wiki will need to be significantly changed in content or layout in order to be differentiated with existing pages on the Fandom wiki.
 * Some language wikis have expressed concerns with forking due to their smaller size and lower activity, and have opted to first observe how successful the fork of the English wiki is before considering forking themselves. – Sonicwave talk  06:09, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Out of the alternative hosts, I'd prefer wiki.gg as I already have an account there (I also edit(ed) the Terraria wiki), and I'm unfamiliar with others 😉 As far the transition itself, while Minecraft Wiki is no longer an "official" wiki as such, I feel Microsoft and Mojang would have much easier times popularizing the wiki at its new site (if and wherever would it be) than Re-Logic in case of Terraria; after all, we're talking about the best selling video game, owned by one of the largest IT companies out there. They even have a search engine of their own, though rigging Bing to prefer the new site over Fandom would feel dirty. — BabylonAS 07:28, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * As a Director, I have one main reservation. The French wiki for instance is too small to survive a move, it would be nice if we could have interwikis pointing in and out of Fandom, so the EN wiki links to the FR Fandom, and vice-versa. --MetalManiacMc, French Minecraft Wiki Administrator 08:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * That won't be possible unfortunately. Fandom wouldn't allow to link to a wiki on different farm. You'll continue linking to this wiki. --TreeIsLife (talk) 08:18, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Won't the fork be total, i. e. cover all the language sections, not just the English one (with perhaps a few other larger ones)? — BabylonAS 08:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The fork would include all language wikis interested in forking as well. It is assumed that most of the active language wikis are likely to follow the English wiki. Note that depending on the host the language wikis might not be forked at the same time as the English wiki but delayed by up to a few weeks. MarkusRost (talk) 17:12, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The ZH wiki has been considering this matter but we simply just couldn't see any better option to us (we have many reasons to move and to not move, but it's a bit complex). Just like the concern of FR wiki, even if EN could move, other languages would face the problem of being too small to survive a fork, and since interwiki to another wiki farm is impossible in Fandom (also considering SEO), it's an all-go or all-stay. --  Lakejason0  (Talk • Contribs) 09:05, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Two main reasons to move are network access condition (it's been too slow recently in China mainland) and the lack of missing IWR for ZH, in other words, permissions (it's due to all members in Fandom Community Central Crew of Chinese simply cannot be employed by Fandom due to either law restrictions or else). To not move of course is also network access condition (all options are not getting this better) and the lack of permissions (all wiki farms now in China mainland are either having little knowledge about MediaWiki compared to Fandom which has been so many years or we couldn't move into due to their policy). --  Lakejason0  (Talk • Contribs) 09:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * And yes, that's what we are concerned about - considering SEO and what will newcomers think of the forking action, especially for other languages of MCW. For zh-wiki I don't think forking can solve our main problem, that is, SEO and the acceptance of a new wiki farm, and also how to guide our new comers to access and edit in our wiki.-- Lxazl5770 zh.admin（ 论 ▪ 功 ） 10:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I support the Minecraft Wiki forking. While either host is a vast improvement over Fandom, I would much prefer we became independent, forking to either ABXY or Bulba. This is for three main reasons:
 * 1. I believe independency should be the goal of any wiki, for editors to have complete control over the wiki and how it functions. While wiki.gg is a much better wiki farm than Fandom, I do not find the idea of being under another wiki farm ideal.
 * 2. Wiki.gg's philosophy of "we will add requested features only when it helps a wiki fork to us" irks me the wrong way immensely. Visual editor, a basic feature that I would consider a requirement for any wiki, was only implemented very recently despite it being highly requested for a long time. Notifications, a useful feature that we have felt the effects of not having due to Fandom breaking them, is not implemented on wiki.gg at all, and would only be added since it would further convince us to fork there. I find this unfair to the other wiki communities at wiki.gg, and I wonder if our concerns and requests will be so important to them once we are in their hands.
 * 3. I am quite active on Inkipedia, an independent wiki hosted by ABXY. My experience on that wiki makes me confident in the idea of independency, more specifically ABXY. -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  09:53, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I do not support forking simply because having two similar wikis is disastrous, especially when the most known and visible one is out of date (fandom). For most non EN wikis the editor base is really small and one-time editors will likely edit the fandom one. It would bring so much work and so many issues that I don't find it worth it. Fusion thermonucleaire (talk) 10:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I support forking to a different host, preferably Bulba or ABXY (in that order - I view Bulba just a little more independent wiki-wise than ABXY), due to the high degree of independence we'll be getting, in the same spirit as Harristic. In an ideal world I'd prefer going fully independent. DarkShadowTNT (talk) 12:27, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * to ABXY or Bulba.--Arceusgjengen (talk) 13:45, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * If we move to a different host, would that mean that upgrading the software version will potentially become more difficult? A big company like Gamepedia or now Fandom has a much larger technical background and foundation than a smaller independent platform, and so I don't feel confidence in the alternatives mentioned when we want to keep up with the evolving MediaWiki. My preference goes to Mojang/Microsoft themselves. Let them host the wiki themselves, then we can finally call it official. But honestly I'm fine here too. If it were up to me I'd not move at all because I don't have a problem with this platform. Jack McKalling (talk) 17:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * As far as I know moving to a different host wouldn't make upgrading the software substantially harder, all of our host options have their wikis on the most recent MediaWiki version. Why exactly would we want to have Microsoft host the wiki? We'd be labelled as official in exchange for being ruled over by a company that cares about us less than Fandom does, and having possibly even less freedom. Also we have no indication that Microsoft would host the wiki, so they're not an option.
 * -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  18:20, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As for Mojang/Microsoft hosting the wiki, that's definitely not not an option. We just need to ask them, and figure out what options are there. Because before you've asked, the answer will always be no. It shouldn't be swept off the table just yet. I'm currently in a conversation with them about this, lets see what they're saying. Jack McKalling (talk) 20:08, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * You are currently discussing the idea of Mojang/Microsoft hosting this wiki with Mojang/Microsoft themselves? Who exactly are you talking to, and why have other community members not been invited into this discussion? -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  20:27, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not a public discussion, and I'm under NDA there. Let's see if something comes out of it. Which could be anything, including a public discussion. Jack McKalling (talk) 21:03, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Well, that's certainly interesting, forgive my surprise. Although I'm intrigued, I really don't think that being hosted by Microsoft is a good idea, for one we'd all probably be forced to use Microsoft accounts to log into the wiki. In a dream scenario we could be hosted by one of our other host options (wiki.gg, ABXY, or Bulba) while still being considered official and being promoted by Microsoft and Mojang. -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  21:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * This is completely unworkable, as far as I can tell. Microsoft cannot use any of the existing community-made content on this wiki, because the Minecraft Wiki is made available by fandom under the CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 license, which prohibits commercial use. Lordofpipes2 (talk) 15:27, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I'll warn everyone now that while what I'm about to discuss will sound obstructionist, I'm not against forking the wiki. I just want to know if we have access to people who've done this to another Fandom wiki before, so we could ask how the experience went. What concerns me is that Fandom is a U.S. corporation (right?), and I believe that under U.S. Copyright law, Fandom has what's called a "compilation copyright" on the wiki. A compilation copyright covers making copies of an entire work that is composed of a number of component works, which may or may not have various kinds of individual copyright protections. Fandom hosts the wiki to make a profit. An exact duplicate of the wiki would create competition that eats into that profit. The compilation copyright idea exists specifically to prevent that from happening. So while CC-BY-SA allows you to make copies of individual articles, the compilation copyright can prevent you from copying the wiki as a whole. And even if Fandom choose nots to assert its compilation copyrights in such a case, they can't divest their rights (it's automatic, they didn't have to register or request anything like you would for a patent or trademark). So if in the future they feel like a fork is costing them views, they could change their mind and sue the fork host to take the wiki down and claim any profits it made. The forking policy does sound like they're willing to allow a fork, but it's not legally binding on them to honor it forever. The upshot is, we might have to rewrite a substantial number of articles if they change their mind. I'd like to know if other forked wikis have ever had issues like these.
 * There's also the question of how much help they'd give us. The forking policy says they'd prefer to work out the issues that make a community want to fork, rather than just let them go. Do we have to go through a process of negotiation before they agree? If they agree, does that mean they'll make a copy of the wiki available to us? And some things, like certain templates, modules, and stylesheets, are their intellectual property; I presume we couldn't copy those.
 * Admittedly, I am not a lawyer. I'd be very interested if any editors who are lawyers or law clerks would be willing to respond to this. — Auldrick (talk &middot; contribs) 20:54, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I doubt actual lawyers would give any advice here; that said, I'm not a lawyer either, and this obviously isn't legal advice. I actually doubt Fandom has compilation copyright here - based on what legal texts I could find, it would require Fandom to have made creative value judgements about what to include on a wiki and how to include it; however, these decisions are made by community members. I found nothing that suggests applying compilation copyright to wikis is anything more than an untested legal theory, nor am I aware of other copyright challenges to forked wikis from original hosts.
 * Please list all wiki pages you believe to be exempt from the CC license, as well as the reasoning from the exemption you believe to exist. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 05:09, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't Fandom would have any merit to an argument like this, in the US at least. Compilations are copyrightable based on the effort the author put into selection. The Minecraft Wiki is a crowdsourced effort put together by people who have agreed to CC BY-NC-SA, there is no top-down selection from Fandom. Other than deleting spam, which would clearly be considered unoriginal and unexpressive under copyright law. Lordofpipes2 (talk) 15:20, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I received some information from this week's upcoming technical update to share with you all. It pertains to the one of the initial points "Adding links to other wikis (some of which cover questionable topics) and unrelated Fandom articles in places like the Fan Feed and full-page search results". On desktop (the experiment needs to be rerun on mobile) Fandom actually just productized a change from a successful experiment to only show content in the fan feed from the wiki the reader is currently on. This change was pushed out last week. So no more recommendations from other wikis, at least. — OishiiOnIno ( talk ) 23:26, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Another thing I can share with you all is that Fandom has actually been talking about a change to the global nav color for logged out users. I don’t have a final decision to share with y'all just yet, but can confirm the color is likely to change to something more muted. — OishiiOnIno ( talk ) 19:02, 15 June 2023 (UTC)


 * As for my own opinion on forking: I've been pretty hesitant on the idea until recently, primarily due to the fact that the Fandom wiki won't be redirected. Having two competing wikis would increase confusion among readers, potentially decreasing the credibility of both wikis, and I'm unsure how effectively we can redirect readers and editors to the new wiki. As many or most readers likely don't participate in the Minecraft community, it's inevitable that a certain proportion of readers will be unreachable regardless of the amount of promotion we pull off. It's also possible that new editors will actively update the Fandom wiki, although this probably won't happen quickly given the relatively low participation in the wiki from the overall MC community.
 * On the other hand, if we really want to fork and have good reasons for doing so, I don't think we should necessarily let this factor of "reader confusion" be the blocking factor. My motivation to work on the wiki has dropped in part due to the Fandom changes and the increased negative sentiment from the Minecraft community regarding Fandom and this wiki by extension. I also get a sense that the number of active editors and the overall motivation of the community has dwindled, although I'd like to get some hard statistics on editor count. However, I personally don't share the opinion that full wiki independence is of high importance and that wiki farms should be completely avoided; my concerns are mostly regarding the Fandom platform specifically.
 * For these reasons, if we do decide to fork my preference would be to go to wiki.gg. I think we'll need all the SEO we can get, and wiki.gg already has some platform recognition for hosting other forked wikis such as Terraria. It's been suggested that wiki farms tend to achieve better SEO than independent wikis, though I'd like someone with more knowledge to confirm this point. I'll give the caveat though that I'm much more familiar with wiki.gg than the other listed options.
 * Also, this isn't to say that I see wiki.gg as without issue. As of writing they don't seem to have either on-site or email notifications set up, which to me seems like basic functionality for wiki editing. They also don't currently seem to support a proper mobile skin which may be an issue; I think accessibility and having a interface better than Fandom's will be important in getting users over. However, wiki.gg staff and other users in the wiki.gg community may be able to help us with designing supported skins as well as other technical issues. On other platforms, we may have more options regarding customization but will probably be more on our own, and I have doubts about putting this workload purely on community members, given the lack of initiative that sometimes happens (as seen by fact that large discussions move slowly and often stall or result in no action). – Sonicwave talk  06:35, 15 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I suggest that, in order to reduce ads, readers can be guided to use ad filters, but only block ads between page contents. Whatever part of the ads is blocked, some ads should be kept appropriately, after all, a large wiki farm cannot be sustained without any income.
 * There's also a good idea to actively guide readers to sign up and log in, so they can freely choose whether to hide the "Popular Pages" on the side and/or the "Fan Feed" at the bottom, and can make edits whenever they want, which can help increase active users. Logging in can also reduce ads.
 * Regarding the limits imposed by Fandom, I think it is impossible to escape from any limits imposed by wiki hosts as long as we are not independent wiki sites. Therefore, we may have to accept some limits and actively communicate with the wiki host to balance the host's measures with our freedoms. Of course, I think it's a bit improper of Fandom to add links of other wikis and their pages (and sometimes something inappropriate) that are completely unrelated to the content of the page.
 * There are now three options: Move to a different wiki host; Set up an independent wiki site; Stay in Fandom.
 * If we move to a different wiki host, the first and most immediate impact is the delays of the different wiki hosts. According to the delay test results of chinaz.com website, the delays (which I concern more) of other wiki hosts in China mainland are 50-100ms more than Fandom in average, which is sometimes the difference between accessing the website and connection timeout. However, the flow we may have brought to the wiki host can generate more income for it and use the income to improve the quality of the server connection. The second is the impact to SEO, which I don't know much about, so I won't analyze it. Of course, there is also advantages of this option, one of them is the limits imposed by the wiki host can be reduced.
 * If we set up an independent wiki site, the first problem is how much budget we need to keep the server sustaining. Perhaps the major ways are donations and ads. Secondly, the moving of SEO and flow may not be as successful as moving SEO and flow to a different wiki host, after all, we set up our own site. There is also a risk of cyber attacks that will affect the website negatively. However, the advantage of this is quite clear - there are almost no limits, and everything is up to us. However, I personally think that this is likely impossible and will be difficult.
 * To sum up, I think we can stay at Fandom and continue to work to acquire more rights. Of course, above is from the view of an ordinary editor, I might have not taken into account the specific demands from admins.-- AblazeVase69188  (talk | contribs) 10:48, 15 June 2023 (UTC) (Last edited: 04:02, 16 June 2023 (UTC))
 * I think you are overly optimistic that Fandom will implement suggested changes that improve reader experience, and that we will gain more rights. Fandom is actively getting worse when it comes to readers experience, the most recent example being the forced age screening.
 * I also think you are overly pessimistic about the wiki becoming independent. We have two parties offering to host us, the simple act of them offering to host us proves that the Minecraft Wiki becoming independent is possible and can happen, it would be strange for them to offer hosting without being sure that they could actually host us. Also, I believe the wiki would fund itself relatively easily through ads, the sheer popularity of Minecraft shouldn't be underestimated. As for SEO, in the long term we will achieve the same search result spots no matter where we fork to, that being mostly the second spot, sometimes the first depending on the article. -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  11:25, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * There is no basis to be certain that any fork would share similar search engine positions. As I understand, the people who said that recovery is certain never explained how they reached their SEO-related conclusions. As such, it's not wrong to retain doubt in that search engine rankings will recover. --AttemptToCallNil (talk) 11:31, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Us not asking our hosts how they came to those conclusions does not mean those conclusions cannot be a basis for at least some certainty, though the information would be nice to have. -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  12:59, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As an ordinary editor of China mainland, I concern more about the stability of the connection to the host. So, no matter which host the wiki will move to (if you finally decide to move), I hope the delay not being too bad (compared with Fandom) can be guaranteed, which will also be friendly to both readers and editors.-- AblazeVase69188  (talk | contribs) 04:02, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I strongly support the wiki moving platforms to one that has no editing limitations and uses the default MediaWiki theme.--Eduaddad (talk)  pt.Wiki Administrator  16:16, 15 June 2023 (UTC)


 * 1) The connection of the website. Well, this is the main problem happened in China, as a foreign website the connection is usually poor no matter where the wiki hosted in.
 * 2) SEO, of course. Similiar to the above one, is really poor.
 * 3) Advertisement. This seems still exists, and we don't know if our community will accept them.
 * 4) The separation between the two administrating team, and even the potential separation of the entire community.
 * 5) P.S. When other websites mention the "Minecraft Wiki" or refer contents from MCW, we can simply learn that this is from the MCW hosted in Fandom, but if we fork one to another wiki farm, it's unclear that where is the content from unless they give a link to this wiki. However, as far as I know, most of the websites just simply mention that "this content is from Minecraft Wiki" without a direct link to here and they (also includes the readers) don't really care where the wiki hosted and just choose the better one.


 * To short, MCW in other languages have their own thoughts and problems about this forking. For the Chinese one, forking will not solve the problem and even make things become worse. That's all about our concern.
 * We still need to have a further discussion about our zh-wiki, if en-wiki has been confirmed to move to another farm! -- Lxazl5770 zh.admin（ 论 ▪ 功 ） 08:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * To hopefully clarify the discussion around language wikis: a lot of the previous discussions we've had about forking assumes that all languages would either move together or stay on the same platform. That doesn't necessarily have to be the case; some language wikis may opt to fork with others remaining on Fandom. However, if the EN wiki in particular moves then I'm not sure what effect it would have on the language wikis that remain. Would there be decreased traffic coming from the EN wiki and issues for wikis that depend on EN's content? One concern already brought up is that this may split the community, and it would certainly require a paradigm shift from how we've viewed language wikis as interconnected for a long time. For language wikis currently not in favor of forking, what are your thoughts on such a situation? – Sonicwave talk  19:47, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * About the retraction of ZH arguments:
 * In the most recent discussions between ZH editor community, we shifted our topic from comparing benefits and disadvantages to how to reduce the negative impact as much as possible, after we realized you almost reached the consensus of forking the EN wiki.
 * We are opposing previously because we are concerned about the damage to our (ZH community) interests (same as FR). In personal, I think you still not give a proper explanation to dispel our concerns (Especially the SEO one. As far as I know, some members in your community also doubt the current explanations.), despite we retracted these texts, this cannot be regarded as we give up our concerns, because arguing these become meaningless after the decision of forking is made. If I'm only a regular editor, or even only a regular reader, as a victim of Fandom's behavior, I strongly support that we should find a way to get rid of it. By contrast, as a director, more considerations must be made and get rid of the personal likes and hates. In my opinion, the things Fandom had done is degrading readers' experience, damaging our public reputation. As a result, we, the ZH administrative team, also received a lot of complainants from the community, as you received from yours. And I believe, the Fandom, for making their own profits, to sacrificing us, and killing us gradually, which is undoubtful. But, back to the most important one, the SEO problem, which brought us the potential possibilities of separating community (not just between languages), still not bring us a explanation which can persuade us to fork. To us, the current explanation seems more like a promise, not a conclusion after careful consideration, we feel unsafe to such a promise. The SEO problem must be solved before we are forking into anywhere, because the forking will definitely cause the separation. For editors, I believe we can bring them to the new place, but what about the regular readers? Does anyone have a full confidence to bring them all? I think the answer is no. Because of this, as I mentioned above that Fandom is killing us gradually, if we can't properly deal with this, sadly, we will die immediately. We can't let this happen only if we can reduce the negative impact as much as possible.
 * Then, continue the explanation of the retraction, the transition of our stands is made based on you almost reached the consensus of forking. In our opinion, if the Minecraft Wiki had to fork, forking together is matching our fundamental interests. By that, we, the ZH community also started a wide discussion of choosing the best solution and try to reduce negative impacts I mentioned above as much as possible.
 * After all, we need a solid and considered solution to fork, and the current one seems not. After some discussions in the ZH community, we suggested to discuss more about how to make a more detailed action plan to use our social media and the cooperation with influencer and Youtubers (or Bilibili uploaders in Chinese Mainland) to inform the fork, which should be discussed more privately to avoid any interruption. -- Anterdc99Face.png  Anterdc99 (T·C) 13:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The SEO problem isn't a problem so easily solved, if the fork happens, the SEO impact will be detrimental no matter what course we take or choice we make. We can only work to mitigate it the best we can, that mainly being through promotion online and being as active as possible to stop Google considering the new wiki a duplicate and hiding it from search results. Immense work will need to be put in to change most articles in some substantial way. On one hand, this will be easier for EN, but partly harder. I believe EN has the man-power to make these changes, but many of the mainspace articles on EN could be considered complete, so finding ways to change them substantially may be difficult. Less active language wikis might not have the full man-power to pull off these changes, but due that lesser activity, many articles may be incomplete and thus could be more easily changed substantially. If this work is put in, the SEO problem should become far less prevalent and we can achieve SEO second only to Fandom. The Fandom wiki will become immensely less active, meaning its editors will not be able to completely stay on top of new additions and changes to Minecraft, meaning there will be times where new content and features are released, and the only search result will the new wiki, because the Fandom wiki has not created that article. Completely beating Fandom's SEO is something that may only happen in half a decade or more, but we can work to compete with it as much as possible. (Having better SEO than Fandom is possible, see Inkipedia, an ABXY-hosted wiki (ABXY is one of our proposed hosts) which has its Fandom counterpart completely beat in terms of SEO. No I am not stating that this is a realistic goal for us to achieve soon, it is just something I am pointing out).


 * A name change could certainly help with easing the process of promotion, it would stop readers from confusing the two wikis together, and allow people who know about the fork to specifically search for the new wiki. In the EN MCW discord, the name "Minepedia" has been talked about a lot and has seen support by quite a few, though certainly not all. My suggestion is to have Minepedia as our brand and domain name (the domain name  is owned by DarkShadowTNT, so it is available to us), but links that appear in search results would show "Page Name - Minecraft Wiki". Some have said that the name "Minepedia" could hurt credibility of the wiki, so the suggestion alleviates that concern mostly. A unique name also simply makes it easier for people and content creators to spread the word about the new wiki, they can simply recommend people visit Minepedia, instead of doing the confusing task of explaining the difference between two wikis with identical names, and how to find the correct one.


 * We cannot provide more than basic advice on promotion, different languages will have different avenues for promotion, and more detailed plans will need to be made within specific language communities.


 * Overall I am unsure what to recommend to ZH, I would recommend that you stay at Fandom, as a fork is too big of a risk, but it seems that is not an option for you. A fork is always a risk, some can afford to take that risk more than others. -   Harristic   |  Talk |  Contributions  15:35, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm generally in favor of forking from Fandom. The reader experience on the wiki has been continuously getting worse in turn resulting in a damaged reputation and less editors as well as regular complains. There are a few huge issues I'm seeing with forking though, which we will need to consider:
 * Global CDN: The Minecraft Wiki is huge with readers around the globe, not even considering the large non-English wikis which might fork together with the English wiki. Due to that we will most certainly need a global CDN setup or response times for readers would be horrible. Not all of our current hosting offers seem to include that, which would be a blocker for me. However some do, so I do think forking is an option.
 * SEO: Another huge issue is of course SEO. Fandom won't close the existing wiki, so we will have to directly compete with the current wiki. This will be very hard as the Fandom wiki is many years of established usage and linkage ahead of us. Contacting YouTuber and other influencers to announce and report on the fork has been suggested, to help with the initial hurdle of getting readers to know about the fork. And while I think this is an important part for getting users to know about the fork, I don't think it alone will be enough to give the new wiki enough of an SEO push to compete with the Fandom wiki. This is for the simple reason of Google hiding duplicate content: Meaning when two sites have the same content, only the more established site (most definitely the Fandom wiki) will be displayed, with the other site not showing up at all. I see this as the biggest issue for any fork, because it makes the new wiki almost impossible to find, even for users who are aware of the fork. Some users suggested a name change to allow specifying the search query like "minecraft piston wikigg" or "zombie minepedia", but that would only help for users aware of the fork. So the only real option against duplicate content is to change all wiki pages, layout or content wise, after the fork. This will be a lot a lot of work for the editors, specially on non-English wikis with less editors overall. So any wiki considering to fork, need to keep in mind that it will be a lot more work than just moving the pages to a new site. However when the editor community thinks they are able to do this additional work, I do think a fork can be successful. --MarkusRost (talk) 14:25, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Strongly support forking this wiki – JEC <sub style="color:#f7c">talk @ 20:55, 17 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Also full support from me for forking this wiki. Terraria already did it, put in the work to announce it to the community, and they sure got out before this whole "Fandom wants to know your age" garbage. FrozenEarth (talk) 23:22, 17 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I support forking the wiki. - CrowdingFaun624 (talk) 04:05, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * . I have to say I am deeply dissapointed with Fandom, especially staff's decisions. Staff doesn't care something is too much. They add ads everywhere they can - in global nav, on top of the pages (with an ad which takes half the screen), ads in right sidebar (signifying that nobody had learned from the right sidebar fiasco on pre-Gamepedia wikis), ads/promotions between content and now we have ads directly inside the wiki's content. I also have to mention Fandom's age screening mechanism (which is poorly described and its only goal is to maximize profits) and the inability for anons to use file pages --TreeIsLife (talk) 06:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * forking. -TheGreatSpring (talk | contribs) 13:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Strongly the fork - DEJVOSS (talk) 18:32, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


 * forking. What we'll end up with is a new wiki that doesn't have "offical" status that nobody will read or find, because Fandom prohibits redirecting or linking out to it from this wiki, even if it's defunct. I would support instead the establishment of an actual "official" wiki hosted by Microsoft, as long as it accepts community contributions. Amatulic (talk) 00:58, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree that nobody will read the wiki. I mean, check Reddit. You see every other week people are dissatisfied with the wiki. People are concerned about number of ads, the layout and the practices Fandom makes on nearly day-to-day. In the end, people come up with conclusions saying the wiki decreased in quality. And even in editor communities, you can see people had left the wiki because Fandom. Now, it's also possible wikis can be used as advertisement tools too, as happened recently with McDonalds wiki. --TreeIsLife (talk) 11:59, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * While much of the arguments have already been said, I want to throw my hat into the ring and say that I the fork because I believe it provides an opportunity to significantly improve both the reader and editor experience. The biggest concern is of course SEO, but I believe that given proper planning and advertisement, we can mitigate those issues. Eventually, the fork will be better than what we can achieve on Fandom. It also provides a valuable opportunity to re-engage with the community, try out new things, and attract new editors since Fandom has distanced some from this community. Regardless of the decision though, I will stick with the community. Ishbosheth (talk) 05:12, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * forking. Based on recent changes Fandom has done by overthrowing wikis for paid advertisements and investment in AI to build out wikis faster. Fandom isn't what it used to be anymore. - Azgoodaz (talk) 14:43, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * about the fork: As a representative of the Spanish Minecraft Wiki, I communicate to you that we decided to not fork together with EN on the initial fork, as we'd prefer to see how well it goes for EN to actually take a decision. In any case, if it wasn't because the possibility of forking all language wikis instead of letting them all decide for themselves, I probably wouldn't be commenting here. I encourage any editor of a non-EN Minecraft Wiki to make their own communities decide themselves about the fork proposal, because while EN can decide by themselves, non-EN variants are their own thing and should take decisions by themselves without worries. Now about my own personal opinion, I can't say I personally support or oppose the fork, it has pros and cons, so I'll personally stick with a . -- Supeika (contáctame) 18:47, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I've been a community member firstly involved with Polish Minecraft Wiki and later ocassionally being involved with English Minecraft Wiki (mostly via Discord, sometimes small edits and discussion participation) for almost 10 years now and I support the fork, here is why: I've joined up the wikis when they were hosted on Gamepedia, those who remember those times likely know how much have changed since then. Without going on a nostalgia trip, I want to say that wiki platforms always have problems. Gamepedia had, Fandom has if wiki forks the next one will have different set of problems. Point is, no matter where we go, we'll still have issues, of one or other type. And yet, I still believe in forking.  Being a global volunteer at Gamepedia and later Fandom I've had first hand experience seeing and hearing how those companies work internally, and this experience, combined with high Internet presence for past 15 years taught me a bunch of things. One of them is that Fandom, just like any other corporation owning a big Internet platform is focused on making money first and foremost. This is an indisputable fact of a capitalist world we live in.
 * Main reason why I support fork is that I don't trust Fandom. I don't trust Fandom to keep the platform on the same level of usability as until now, I don't trust them not to introduce intrusive features such as lately popular restriction of public APIs, more problematic restrictions such as existing lack of file pages for anonymous users, or give in into abusive/borderline unethical AI functionalities for platform features. There is a pattern that many Internet users are now aware of called "enshittification" - it refers to commercial products getting awful for some reason, we recently observed it happen to Tumblr, Twitter, Twitch, Reddit. And while those services are different in many ways, they also share one common denominator with wikis - user generated content. I do not believe that the same happening to Fandom (some would say it already is enshittified) is unthinkable, and I don't believe that thinking it will eventually happen is a far-fetched idea. For a while I pondered - I usually try to give people benefit of a doubt. I've been living in assume good faith mentality for so long, so why exactly am I now doing the exact opposite and for no reason don't trust Fandom to keep communities happy? And after recent unrelated incident I understood - it's because of history, past actions and continued conduct of Fandom as a company. My lack of faith isn't born of hatred, or natural dislike towards capitalist entities - it's based on patterns and continued actions done by Fandom that keep me away from trusting it. Almost 3 years ago I've spawned internal discussion with Minecraft Wiki directors at that time on the Discord server - the topic was the same as today's. Back then the argumentation I've brought forward for this was as follows:


 * Domain migration from Gamepedia to Fandom and how wiki conflicts were to be handled (if a wiki already existed under given name on fandom.com domain, and Gamepedia wiki had more views/content it would be moved somewhere else completely breaking links and community trust),
 * lack of trust towards Fandom,
 * improvement of reader experience by minimizing advertising and spyware,
 * Fandom branding being slapped everywhere,
 * loss of features due to UCP platform (granted, Fandom did a good job on minimizing the fallout),
 * instability of Fandom platform (at that time it was bad).


 * Others brought arguments such as:


 * Fandom lacking transparency when talking with communities,
 * limitation of admin abilities to manage their communities according to the will of the community,
 * incompatibility between how Fandom operates vs. how Gamepedia operates,
 * Gamepedia brand being diminished.
 * You can rate how much of this argumentation still applies today by yourself. I'm still unhappy about removal of Gamepedia brand which had more positive recognition around the Internet than Fandom does, I'm still unhappy about URL structure and also fandom.com domain, pushing branding in every corner is still a problem. Regular Fandom layoffs showing bad management (2023, 2020, but they happen more frequently and are in Fandom's culture as evidenced by Glassdoor reviews).
 * Creating new programs that are problematic when it comes to wiki culture.
 * Recent Grimace/McDonalds incident also proves to me that Fandom is simply not a reliable platform for communities to be on. Putting advertisement in content of actual articles replacing community made content is problematic on many levels, including harassment towards wiki administrators/editors, ethical issues with how user generated content on wikis is being treated by platform hoster, control by communities over their wikis, license issues with content added by Fandom employees and more. I could probably go on and on considering I've had numerous complaints about Fandom across the years, but that would take time and I'm already overdue with this response. The crux of it all is that Fandom serves its parent company which serves its shareholders, not us. And we can get better terms when we ourselves define wiki's future along with our partners or supporters. We can do this for entire Minecraft community.  I do not represent Polish Minecraft Wiki community, I represent only myself, and I - an editor and administrator of Polish Minecraft Wiki support the fork, whether my fellow editors do that as well is up to them. Forking is not just using better platform, at this point it's also ethical obligation of ours to do so, in addition to necessity of preserving our values. Frisk (talk) 🐐🧼 08:16, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * forking the wiki. Personally, the move to Fandom and gradual teardown of the Gamepedia brand contributed significantly to the decline in my personal interest in editing the wiki (although other reasons were involved as well). I personally find the new interface hard to work with and not particularily facilitating in encouraging users to become editors. As a logged-out user, in recent years it feels like you just want to be on the wiki for as short as possible, just for the information you need, and then leave again because the ads are obnoxious. The new and completely unnecessary "are you an adult or not" question that covers the entire screen just amplifies that even more. Though that's maybe just my subjective impression.


 * Plus there's the issue of ads being placed inside of wiki content, which is straight up unacceptable.


 * Another point that Frisk also brought up already is that Fandom lacks a lot of transparency in regards to communication with their communities. For example, originally when the new design was introduced, I was part of a Slack channel were we were supposed to give feedback on it, but it felt like that feedback just got thrown into the void and was not actually listened to. At some point, that channel just became dead because nobody bothered anymore to write anything there as it would just be ignored anyway. That being said, I'm not as opposed to the new design as others might be, but a lot of important links are just hidden away in weird places, which significantly contributed to my decline in desire to edit the wiki further.


 * Of course I'd personally like the wiki to become completely independent to not have the risk of being in the hands of a third-party company. However I also do realize that going fully independent is a huge amount of effort and probably not feasible. As such, I would support going for a semi-independent route, i.e. not becoming part of another wiki farm, but relying on a company that provides wiki hosting. Optimally in that case we should still have the option to become more independent or switch hosts if things go south with whatever host we go with (e.g. it's being sold to Fandom or something, you never know).


 * Forking the wiki will require a lot of effort, especially with adapting the wiki to improve SEO and such compared to the old Fandom wiki, and also to advertize the wiki across the Minecraft community. But I do believe that this is possible: I'd imagine a lot of the Minecraft community would be glad we're moving away from Fandom, and there are lots of news channels we could potentially use to make people aware of the move.


 * I'm writing this as my personal opinion of the matter, and not in the name of the German admin team. | violine1101 (talk) 16:37, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * - I'm writing this on behalf of the German admin team. We just had a voice call, here's the summary:


 * The German admin team is split on the issue. The consensus is to not fork at the same time as the English wiki, but to at least wait until after the English wiki has forked (if it does) for a final decision. Here are our concerns about the fork:


 * The amount of work that creating and maintaining a new fork would entail (in particular in regards of SEO) is too much, considering the amount of editors on the German wiki
 * The activity of the wiki currently is very low, probably the lowest it ever was. There are fears that forking would make the situation more severe, in particular with motivating readers to become editors.
 * Making sure readers know about the fork is difficult, even more so than it is the English wiki. Our hope is that if the English wiki forks, this momentum could carry over to the German one, but this is in no way a guarantee.


 * At the same time, we have multiple issues with Fandom as it is. These are the ones we discussed:
 * The new design is not very friendly for editors, and in particular for introducing new editors, with links that previously were in the left sidebar now being scattered around the place. In particular, we noted that the very important "Recent changes" is hidden behind a small icon that is not very easy to find. We believe this is part of the cause for why we no longer have as many editors.
 * It is not possible to view file history anymore if you are not logged in, this is information that should be publicly accessible.
 * We strongly dislike the age question screen shown to logged out users, as well as the kinds and amount of ads
 * The fact that at times the article content by default only takes about 50% of the space, and the sidebar is sometimes completely empty
 * Anonymous edits are not possible, further making it harder to get started for new users to become editors
 * The search engine used by Fandom is significantly worse and less powerful than the one used while Gamepedia was still a thing


 * We hope that Fandom addresses these issues in some way. We remain following the forking discussion in the English wiki, and will discuss this again once (and if) it happened. | violine1101 (talk) 17:13, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Vote
In order to facilitate a large number of people participating in this discussion and decide on a particular host, a separate page has been created at Minecraft Wiki:Moving from Fandom. This is a partial "vote" where both the number of opinions and their supporting arguments are taken into account. I'd request for everyone to give their votes and arguments on that page, even if you have already commented here. This discussion will be closed either 2 or 3 weeks from now (July 17 or 24), depending on how active it still is by the former date. – Sonicwave talk  20:04, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

AMAs with Fandom staff on Discord
Fandom staff are holding several AMAs/Q&As on the wiki Discord in response to some of the concerns that have been raised recently, including in the topic above. The specific schedule provided is as follows (with direct event invite links provided):


 * AMA with Becky, Director of SEO
 * https://discord.gg/fGdE5ZE?event=1122246851391914036
 * Monday, June 26, 2023 17:30 (UTC)
 * She can talk about the anon file page redirect that we introduced and the reasoning behind it and how it has affected the wiki traffic. As her role might allude to, you can also ask more questions related to SEO, please feel free to do so.
 * https://docs.google.com/document/d/11m098qqjI9lYlO3iQorqHAS4pRoWFYnw8dUQOa7hwWw/edit?usp=sharing


 * AMA with Eva, Product Manager
 * https://discord.gg/fGdE5ZE?event=1122247322953338911
 * Monday, June 26, 2023 20:00 (UTC)
 * She can talk about the concerns surrounding the editor decline. She's been directly involved in product experimentation to help get more editors onto the platform, feel free to ask questions about those efforts.
 * https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fwxVxi8alcXB2sBc2FEBfh2NSp89pM0O62NTJoP9VYU/edit?usp=sharing


 * AMA with Ad Product team
 * https://discord.gg/fGdE5ZE?event=1123848936059322378
 * Wednesday, July 5, 2023 18:00 (UTC)
 * This AMA will be about the age gate pop up with two people on the Ad Product team. They are open to A/B testing changes based on feedback as long as it is within certain guidelines such as legal compliance.
 * https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z2ejnAPDztLBv1IdhnOA2JpNs7ks02mGBkMZcZOjvjQ/edit?usp=sharing


 * AMA with Brian, Director of Community Activations
 * https://discord.gg/fGdE5ZE?event=1122247498883399731
 * Thursday, July 6, 2023 16:00 (UTC)
 * He can talk about the recent Grimace ad campaign and how they're working on changing things moving forward. Community Activations might be a division that's less known about, so feel free to ask questions relating to partnerships, etc and how they actually work.
 * https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MMxOkHz7k_aK7P_V1h3hz2rKAxS3OAE-QQifq-ttTDw/edit?usp=sharing

There's not a whole lot of advance notice from the time of me posting this, but if anyone doesn't want to join the Discord and would like to forward some questions, feel free to share them here. Staff will continue to answer questions for around a day after the start time of each AMA. I believe they will also compile documents for each event so the answers will be publicly available on-wiki. – Sonicwave talk  00:10, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


 * As the AMAs have ended, I have edited the above post to include these Google Docs compiled by staff. – Sonicwave talk  19:57, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

About Bulbapedia
There is something i need to ask before we leave. It seems most of you have bulbapedia accounts ready. Anyway, whenever i try to send a confirmation account email, it doesn't show up. No junk, no deleted emails, nothing. I tried resending multiple times but it didnt do anything. I cant ask them, because i dont have a confirmed email. So what do i do? Finnodile (talk) 05:23, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't have an answer, but this definitely seems like something that should be addressed before possibly moving to Bulbapedia. New users having potential issues signing up with no way to troubleshoot and no channels for troubleshooting is a huge problem. Blue Banana whotookthisname (talk) 13:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey there. Unfortunately, we are not Bulbagarden support wiki and so we do not provide support for Bulbagarden sites. I recommend asking on Bulbagarden's Discord server.
 * If we decide to move to Bulbagarden (which seems to be very unlikely), we would not be using Bulbagarden accounts. --TreeIsLife (talk) 13:38, 2 August 2023 (UTC)