Talk:Tutorials/Setting up a server/Archive 1

Fix tutorial
The link to "Windows tutorial with focus on how to forward a port" under "Other Tutorials" is broken. Anyone has a new one?


 * I'm not sure when that was posted. There are tons of guides on how to do this on all kinds of gaming forums, but here's something for you.
 * What is Port Forwarding?
 * It's used when you have a router or wireless router between you and the internet. The router will get a public IP Address from your internet provider, and it also will provide private IP Addresses for any computers which you hook up to it (including wireless).
 * When people try to reach you, they only know the public IP address. Port forwarding is a setting in your router that tells it which local IP Address to send it to.
 * If possible, a static local IP setup is best, but that's a whole other can of worms I'm not going into right now.
 * A quick and dirty outline to setting it up
 * Obtain your computer's local IP address.
 * 1. Depending on your OS-
 * Windows XP- Go to 'Start' then 'Run' and type the letters cmd and press Enter.
 * Windows Vista/7- Go to the Windows button, and type command into the search bar. You should see an item at the top of the list called Command Prompt, choose that. (You do not need to Run As Administrator)
 * 2. Click in the black window. Type the command ipconfig and hit Enter.
 * 3. Look through the list until you see the IP Address, or IPv4 Address. Since you are behind a router, it will almost always start with 192.168.x.x with other numbers instead of the x. For some of you it might start with a 10. instead.
 * Find the local IP address of your router.
 * The easiest way to do this is to type your router's brand, model number, and the phrase default IP address into a search engine like Google. You can also consult the router's support web site.
 * It will almost always start with 192.168 and the next two numbers depends on your router brand and model.
 * Log into your router's configuration page. To do this you will simply type the router's IP address into a web browser. If you're never set a password and don't know what the default is, check the same places you just went for the default IP address.
 * Forward the Port
 * First, if you're just using the default then the port you want to forward is 25565. If you want to use a different port number you can, but this will have to match whatever port number is in your server's config file.
 * If you are running multiple servers, you'll need a different rule for each one.
 * You should only need to forward TCP ports, but if your only option is to also allow UDP that's ok.
 * Filling out the information is simple. Any Names are just for keeping track of things, and if your router lets you pick a pre-defined Application just leave that space alone. Put in the port number, and then the local IP of the computer your server is running on.
 * Save your changes!!!
 * Test it out. If you use a non-standard port, you'll need to add the port number in your Client or it won't connect.
 * Here's some resources for finding information
 * Portforward.com has a bunch of walkthroughs for how to configure specific routers. Note that you will need to know your router brand and model.
 * If you don't like that site or prefer getting information direct, go to your manufacturer's support page for instructions. The most common are Belkin, D-link, Linksys, or Netgear (in alphabetical order).


 * Nagroth 13:49, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Mac issue
I run a mac and when I execute start.command I always get the following:

admin/op.txt
2. Add your username to the admin.txt and op.txt. Admin.txt allows you to execute server commands, and op privileges allows you to destroy/place blocks.

Isn't it ops.txt? is admin.txt still used? TiriPon 20:51, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Old server version linked
It may be worth mentioning in the download section that the link at the top of http://www.minecraft.net/servers.jsp results in one downloading an extremely out of date server. Mirth23 23:47, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Permissions?
I run a 15 inch macbook pro (1 or 2 models ago) with mac OS X 10.6.7 (the most current). Im trying to start my minecraft server via "start.command". Yet, "I don't have permission." I tried unlocking the file info window and changing my permission to read and access. Even when I do and the changes are saved, I still don't have permission. Help please?

Nevermind. I just changed the permissions for "net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer" and everything is fixed.

Hamachi
How do I sign up for admin rights using Hamachi? Joev14 19:57, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Split this article?
This article is very confusing to read. I believe splitting this article into "Windows Help" "Linux Help" and "Mac Help" would greatly improve the article. Hailfire 15:28, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Mepholic 20:05, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Me too... -- M3tal_Warrior -- 20:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Hamatchi Admin?
Make it more clear how to become an admin on hamatchi, I can't figure it out for the life of me.

Hamachi Admin not needed
As far as I can tell, to set up a Hamachi server you do not actually need to have "Admin Rights" as the article states. You just need to click Network and then Create a New Network. Whoever joins your server just clicks "join an existing network" and then enters the network name you specified. There are tons of videos about it on Youtube. I am running a server and I never signed up for "Admin Rights". Please change this, if it has not been changed already.

p.s. If you are trying to set up a server, Hamachi is a lot easier than port forwarding. Bobthejeffmonkey 23:48, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Swappiness on Linux Servers?
Has anybody experimented with swappiness on Linux based Minecraft servers? There has been a lot of debate over whether servers vs. desktops should swap more or less. The general consensus is that servers should swap memory more, while desktops should swap memory less.

Some good reading on this right here.

I have a suspicion that lowering the swappiness on a Linux based Minecraft servers will lower the load time for chunks that people haven't seen or been in for a while. Mepholic 20:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * You may decrease the swapiness, but that won't do anything until your RAM is filled up to ~95%. Debian Squeeze sees the SWAP as a backup and won't really use it until it has no other chance. If you want chunks to be loaded as fast as possible and have considerable free RAM (at least the size of the whole minecraft server), you may use /dev/shm as server directory (ATTENTION: THIS IS THE RAM ITSELF - ANY REBOOT WILL DELETE ANYTHING IN HERE!). Wait, I'll just upload my initscript... -- M3tal_Warrior -- 19:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Update: Did it. See http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/User:M3tal_Warrior/Server_Startup_Script

Java Virtual Machine still not working
XP Machine has 2GB of Ram, which should be plenty. Online version of the game works fine. But every time I try to run minecraft.exe, it says "failed to start Java virtual machine". Any steps I'm missing? Chadlupkes 02:10, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Ans: just open the .jar

Alternative Java packages
Arch Linux has alternative java packages in community besides openjdk:

community/jre 7-3 Oracle's Java Runtime Environment community/jdk 7-3 Oracle's Java Development Kit

jre is all that's required for the Minecraft server to work. -Worldwise001 06:32, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Setting up Ports
Here's some proposed information to add regarding setting up ports and connecting (which probably could use editing)


 * What reasons are there for changing to a different port number?
 * The default is already in use.
 * You want to run more than one server- each will need its own port.
 * The default is blocked. Some networks might have the minecraft port blocked to prevent people from running servers, or to play at all. Usually you'll only see this in places like schools, businesses, or public WiFi hotspots.
 * Preventing random scans from potential attackers. (see note on security below)


 * How to change the default port
 * If you want to use a different port than the default, change it in the server config file. It's usually not a good idea to use port numbers between 0 and 1023 since they are reserved. The highest numbered port which can be used is 65535.
 * For a list of commonly used ports check Wikipedia.
 * You will need to update your port forwarding rule to match your server port. If you run more than one server, each one will need to have a different port number (and its own forwarding rule).


 * If it keeps saying the port is already in use
 * You might have a firewall, antivirus, or other security program blocking it. You also might not be running it with the correct permissions, depending on what OS you're using.


 * How to connect to a server using a non-standard port
 * Users who wish to connect to a server which is running on a non-standard port must add a colon and port number after the IP address. (example 192.168.2.3:25590 if the server port is 25590 and the IP it's running on is 192.168.2.3)
 * This will also work with DNS, and dynamic DNS, so for example "minecraft.mydomain.com:25590" will work instead of the IP address, but note the port number must still be used.
 * You WILL have to add the port number even if you're connecting to a server on your own local network.


 * A note on security
 * Changing your port is not a very strong security feature on its own.
 * It's mostly only useful to avoid detection by someone who is just randomly scanning ports, but as minecraft gets more popular it's more likely that it will start being scanned for specifically.
 * If your server is getting attacked then it's probably a better idea to just change your IP address instead. (Most ISP's will assign a new IP address when your router's MAC address changes.)
 * Also, you'll have to tell everybody what port to use or they can't connect. So it's most useful if you run a purely private server.
 * Nagroth 11:39, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I can't get my server to work
I am trying to set up a server, but when i try and test it, it keeps saying it can't connect to it. I am using the beta 1.8.1, if it helps anybody.


 * I tried to connect to my own server, but it says - Connection Lost, Failed To Login: Bad Login. How do I fix this? (Anonymous: 110.175.38.216 - 23:21, 20 January 2012)
 * What have you done? Is it running on localhost? Is whitelist activated? Is the online mode active? Do you have a premium account? Without any info about your system and the variables we most certainly cannot help you, sorry! -- M3tal_Warrior -- 03:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Actual server
I have access to an actual server, not just a PC or laptop, I tried to follow the instructions on installing it but are these directions not for an actual server? 99.177.172.185 11:01, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * They are. Server OS are not really different from any other family member, nor are any hardware differences (RAID, multiple APUs, server mainboards etc.) relevant for the minecraft server, so if your server is running Debian or Ubuntu, use the instructions for Debian/Debianlike. The only difference is that you should use screen or something similar to be able to ssh log off and on whenever you like without shooting down the minecraft server. My server's running on a Debian Squeeze dedicated machine and it works perfectly fine. -- M3tal_Warrior -- 08:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Detailed guide video
I've made a detailed, in depth video on how to make a server on Windows. It covers everything, and is pretty helpful. The first time I set up my own server the instructions on this site only confused the crap out of me. Honestly, they're of absolutely NO help for most of the process, and I had to scour the internet for most the set up. My video completely eliminates that, and is pretty in depth on how to to everything, and what everything is. Would anybody be interested in in having it on the wiki? I originally made it for my friend, who couldn't understand this tutorial either. --Deanm 03:20, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

GOD DAMN YES --Delo997 18:28, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Downloading the.jar
How do you download it? When I download it, it comes on as a ZIP file, not a JAR. Any help on making it a JAR would be appreciated (I run Windows 64 Bit BTW).150.101.196.6 19:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The minecraft_server.jar from http://www.minecraft.net/download linked as https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/minecraft_server.jar? is a jar not a zip. If you are getting a ZIP file, something is wrong, maybe your Windows is labeling it as ZIP? Maybe you need to set Windows to display (andnot hide) file extensions. -Aurelius 14:21, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * On the IRC channel #minecrafthelp a user reported the Chrome browser was renaming some files to end in ".zip", so I wonder if Chrome is the source of your problem? A similar issue has been reported here: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Chrome/thread?tid=1c744e4ff30a95f7&hl=en


 * Accordingly, I have added this precautionary advice to the tutorial: "Ensure the filename is precisely "minecraft_server.jar" (without quotes), in case your browser has renamed it to something else." -Aurelius 12:53, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Answer:
This is how (Works on IE 9):

Click the arrow by "Save" then click "Save As...", then locate to the directory where you want to save it, BUT DON'T CLICK SAVE! change "Compressed Folder (.zip)" to "All Files" then call it what you like then add the .jar extension to it, save it and DONE! then save it. Now then locate it and right-click the file andclick "Rename" then add .jar to the end then done!

--Dawheat 17:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Problem with java x64
This caption was taken from official java site: " Users should download 64-bit Java software, if they are running 64-bit browsers. For downloading 64-bit Java click 64-bit manual download.

''Note: Online Installation and Java Update features are not applicable to 64-bit architecture. '' Follow these instructions for installing 64-bit Java on your system.

''1.Choose the 64-bit Windows offline download. The File Download dialog box   appears.'' ''2.Choose the folder location. (Save the file to a known location on your computer, for example, to your desktop) and Click Save.  3.Close all applications including the browser.'' ''4.Double-click on the saved file icon to start the installation process. ''"

Obviously I did EXACTLY what this instruction says, clicked the offline installation and all the other steps. However, even after 4 retries my java keeps saving in \program files(x86) and if I open control panel--add or remove programs it shows me: Java(32 bits).


 * Do you have a 64bit operating system? All your tries will fail if you are running a 32bit system, regardless of your browser... -- M3tal_Warrior "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin) 20:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Another Error!
I followed EXACTLY what it said and when I ran it it came up with this:

java.lang.NullPointerException at java.io.Reader. (Unknown Source) at java.io.InputStreamReader. (Unknown Source) at net.minecraft.server.AchievementMap. (SourceFile:15) at net.minecraft.server.AchievementMap. (SourceFile:9) at net.minecraft.server.Statistic.d(SourceFile:38) at net.minecraft.server.CounterStatistic.d(SourceFile:15) at net.minecraft.server.StatisticList. (SourceFile:24) at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.main(MinecraftServer.java:582) at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.Main.main(Main.java:134) java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError at net.minecraft.server.LocaleI18n. (SourceFile:5) at net.minecraft.server.Item.l(SourceFile:447) at net.minecraft.server.StatisticList.a(SourceFile:134) at net.minecraft.server.StatisticList.c(SourceFile:81) at net.minecraft.server.Item. (SourceFile:252) at net.minecraft.server.Block. (Block.java:577) at net.minecraft.server.StatisticList.a(SourceFile:117) at net.minecraft.server.StatisticList. (SourceFile:52) at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.main(MinecraftServer.java:582) at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.Main.main(Main.java:134) Caused by: java.lang.NullPointerException at java.io.Reader. (Unknown Source) at java.io.InputStreamReader. (Unknown Source) at net.minecraft.server.LocaleLanguage.b(SourceFile:35) at net.minecraft.server.LocaleLanguage. (SourceFile:21) at net.minecraft.server.LocaleLanguage. (SourceFile:10) ... 10 more

PLEASE help me!!! --Dawheat 17:21, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Pictures (Click the link):

Image 1.)


 * You're trying to run the bukkit server, am I right? Then follow the install instructions at bukkit, not the ones here. -- M3tal_Warrior -- 22:25, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Page Vandalism

 * The page was vandalized, I tried to revert it but I can't because I'm not an established editor. Reasons for being unable to edit are understood; just trying to bring it to someone's attention. 66.193.54.250 21:13, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, so...This talk page was vandalized, and that got fixed almost immediately, but the main 'Setting up a server' page is still 'madre' with a billion e's. 66.193.54.250 21:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Restored last version. Let me know if there's something missing... -- M3tal_Warrior -- 22:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Please guys i need help im trying to make a server so me and my friend can play together!
level-name=Bread 'n' Beard [...]
 * 1) Minecraft server properties

Plus im on the minecraft version 1.1 and my username is in the ops file so .. im stuck.. i followed the instructions you placed up as best as i can? can you help D:


 * First you shouldn't use quotes within a level name - I'm almost dead sure Minecraft won't be able to deal with that. Second: We miss certain information about your configuration, i.e. what operating system you're on, if it's a dedicated server machine and what exactly your problem is. We want to help, but without that it's like poking fog.
 * -- M3tal_Warrior -- 02:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Login problem
Q: I can log into the server while on my computer, but my friends can't. I KNOW I'm giving them the right code.
 * Which code? You mean the IP-Adress? Are they in the same network as you and the server are? If they're sitting at home and your server is somewhere else (i.e. your home), you almost definitely have a routing problem. Forward the port on your router to the port of your minecraft server machine and give them your external IP - then it should work (at least until the automated disconnect by your provider - you might check out dyndns.org to fix that). -- M3tal_Warrior -- 10:59, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

---

Starting issues - Windows
Q:I run my sever using minecraft_server.exe, but then i can't run my minecraft, or vice versa, please help.
 * You can't RUN the minecraft server? What error messages do you get? Which Windows do you run on your machine? And is your Java up to date? Are server and client in different directories, or have you done some special thing and forced the server in at "%user%\Application Settings\.minecraft\"? If you've done that, it might be your problem, because the server might use (and lock) some files your client is in need of and vice versa. Use different directories.-- M3tal_Warrior -- 10:59, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Starting issues - Part 2
Q: Mine doesn't run at all What do I do?
 * Brilliant! Try turning it off and on again! - OK, sorry, that was nasty, but how do you think we can help you without knowing ANYTHING about your system at all? -- M3tal_Warrior -- 11:24, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Server doesn't recognize logged in user
Q: While I'm running a game on mine, it can't "find" my user name. I followed the directions, but anytime time I do a tp or give or anything it says user can't be found. How can I fix that?
 * Well, which user name did you add to the ops.txt - your machine login name or your minecraft login name? I hope the last. You have to write it in full, since minecraft is not able to "autofill" it like the linux terminal does with TAB. Next question: Is your server in online mode? It should be, if there are no serious interests in keeping it offline (i.e. logging in with pirated copys). Then: Is this only a problem of yours or do other players have that too? And last: Do you enter the commands ingame or on the server console? -- M3tal_Warrior -- 11:24, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Trouble Connecting to my own server
Hello, I am having trouble connecting to my own server from the computer that is hosting the server. I am running Windows 7 64 bit OS, with java 6.

When I try to connect, my java window shows this: (numbers replaced with # for privacy) [INFO] /###.###.#.##:##### lost connection

Strangely, my friend sitting next to me has no trouble connecting. We are on the same network. The first time I tried to connect, it worked, but the second and each succeeding attempt failed.

What could be causing my difficulty with connecting?


 * Since I'm running client and server on different machines (at least one of that a linux machine), I'm just able to give a guess. Do you try to connect to your server with your computers IP or do you use the localhost interface (127.0.0.1)? It shouldn't be of any difference, but maybe the servers a little buggy on that subject - try both versions. I know the server has issues regarding slow connections and slow clients too, so if your computer is a little bit on the edge with hosting both game and server, that might be something to think of (since you could connect the first time, when you generated your world and can't while other users are logged in). As everywhere the rule stands: Fastest machine is server machine. Your free RAM should be 2 GB or more too, since the server will use one and the client (minimum) too. And since you have at least two physically separated APU cores, try to bind the server to one while the client uses the rest. Process Explorer (Microsoft Technet downloadable) helps you there. That's all I can think of right now. Good luck! -- M3tal_Warrior -- 09:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Setting a server while not premium
I am playing minecraftforfree.com am I allowed to make a server?
 * Notch did state multiple times that he's OK with pirating, though if I like a game I'd feel ashamed not to pay for it. So the appropriate answer to your question is - from the legal point of view: no. From the moral point of view: NO! And from the point of view that noone will hunt you down for it: propably yes. If I was you, I'd buy the game. And in fact I bought it a couple of times... -- M3tal_Warrior -- 11:28, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I hope this website will be removed quickly.Maxum 20:32, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Modding
OS: Mac OSX 10.6.8 Non-dedicated

I run my own server (vanilla). Is there any way I can mod it? 75.118.73.118 22:28, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * There are some mods that work with the vanilla server, but I'm the wrong man to help you there. See the Server Mods Page for a short description. -- M3tal_Warrior -- 08:16, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

QUESTION!
Hey guys I'm new but i really need help... I really need to know how i can Minecraft Server join with (Hamachi) and Minecraft 1.1 cracked. I'm using Windows XP and my friend has a server namer Nunez11 with an IPv4 of 5.164.228.210 and an IPv6 2620:9b::5a4:e4d2 Please help –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.5.68.163 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 01:47, 25 February 2012 (UTC). Please sign your posts with
 * Best place for your question: www.minecraftforum.net (and why cracked?) :/ -- Oliver Scholz  Wiki Admin 02:00, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

plugins
i am running minecraftserver.exe and everything is fine, but i cant figure out how to install plugins. any help is appreciated. thanks IcYBuLLDoG 20:15, 25 February 2012 (UTC)IcYBuLLDoG

We don't provide support here. Ask on the forums/IRC instead. The vanilla server doesn't have any plugins, also. C ali nou - talk × contribs » 20:25, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Issues with the ram upgrade
I performed the batch file thing exactly as the guide said. If I run the batch file now(normally), I get much more RAM, but it doesn't have the necessary admin permissions. However if I run as ADMIN I get an error saying It couldn't find the Jarfile. I'm using the exe version on Windows 7, on a laptop with 6G of RAM. I have no idea how to make it work with a reasonable amount of RAM. Please help!

By the way I can connect to the server fine with the (very) limited RAM.

82.5.189.233 20:42, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Why can't my friends log on to my server?
I made the server on Windows. I have 64 bit Java. I definitely port forwarded, but they cant log on. I found my ip from ip chicken and gave it to my brother. I play using ip localhost. We run on the same router. I can play, but he cant. He keeps getting "Connection refused connect" or "connection timed out" Thanks to anyone who can help. 21:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait. Your brother plays on the same network as you (sitting in your room/home)? Then the IP-Address from IP chicken won't help. Give him your local IP, you find it out when using the terminal (cmd) and type "ipconfig". This is the IP your brother should use. External IP is only important when playing with users outside your LAN. Do check your firewall settings too - the firewall has to pass every packet (I'd say UDP and TCP, but am not sure) to go for the port. Then: Do you use the original port for your server? If not, your brother must specify the port number. And: If you have your server running white listed, then you and your brother must both be in whitelist. -- M3tal_Warrior -- 23:23, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Java Cannot reach the jarfile.
I am trying to add more RAM to my server. I used the Minecraftwiki tutorial on allocating more RAM and copied exactly what it said. It didn't work, so I changed it to jre6. I also changed the RAM allocation to 1024 because I don't think my machine can support 2 Gb. Now when I run the batch file I get a window entitled "Java Virtual Machine Launcher". In it, it says "Unable to access jarfile Minecraft_Server.exe". The command window also comes up with the batch file text in it. What's going on? What do I need to fix? –Preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.99.145.212 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 00:41, 28 February 2012. Please sign your posts with
 * Is Minecraft_Server.exe in the same directory as your batch file? -- Orthotope 05:30, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Assuming you mean folder by directory, no. I have a folder with just the server application, downloaded from Minecraft.net in it. When I started it all of the necessary files were created. This is all I have in there. This folder is on my desktop and I have the run file on the desktop as well but not in that folder. I hope that helps. 74.99.145.212 01:41, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be the problem. The instructions on the page expect the server to be in the same folder/directory as the batch file. -- Orthotope 06:21, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Splitting
recently tried to split the sections on installing Java and allocating more memory to the server into their own articles. I believe Ultradude25 missed this intention when he deleted the new articles, which were in the main namespace. I think splitting these topics is reasonable; it shortens the article and makes it more specifically about configuring a Minecraft server. The new articles should either be in the Tutorials/ namespace or be subpages of this one; I'm not sure which is more appropriate. Anyone have opinions on this? -- Orthotope 08:58, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * As stated above it would be more reasonable to split the article into the three most obvious main sections: Windows, Linux, MacOS/BSD. I definitely agree that the article is too long and too mixed up. -- M3tal_Warrior -- 09:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

RAM allocation setting in Terminal/Batch
Either we now use the Gigibyte-setting in the command line, and rewrite the text (which talks about MiB atm), or we rechange it back to MiB and leave the text. By the way it's fatally wrong to explain the server would only use 100 MB by default while starting it with a "-Xms2G" - that is horseshit. The server might use only 100 MB in idle, but it WILL reserve the full 2 GiB, needed or not, and therefore "use" it - for spare. I personally don't have the time to do that myself, but since talk's about to split the article, it would be on the way to change that too. -- M3tal_Warrior -- 16:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)