Talk:Caves & Cliffs

About unofficial names and concepts
Currently the page has many unofficial names and concepts. Unofficial concepts such as the copper ingot and copper nugget need to be removed, as they lie firmly in the real of speculation which goes against the rules of the wiki, the unofficial names on the other hand, are ok, as these are a temporary title only used to not call a section of the page "Unnamed Stone Block" although the unofficial names do need to be set as one name, instead of changing every few days, so I think it would be a good idea to create a set name for each of these.-Robonate135 (T C) 17:47, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Currently, the unofficial names that are accepted are Block of Copper, along with it's slab and stair variants, Glow Berry Vines, Dripstone, Candles, Moss Block, Moss blanket, (both Moss Block and Blanket have acceptable names, so should stay) and Limestone, (accepted, although it has gone through some name changes) . The name that have confusion are those of what are currently known as Darkstone or Marble or slate (has gone by all 3 names, and keeps changing between them), Seastone, Cave Sand, the currently two articles under the name Azealia roots, Dimming of light, and the Azealia bushes or saplings. These name keep getting changed, and are currently mainly speculation (this can also include limestone, but that one has been excepted) , and therefore need to be either renamed, or have their name accepted.-Robonate135 (T C) 18:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Lets just call the stones "Unnamed Stone" for now. Until we get the full info, let's call it that 70.179.56.250 02:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I think it is not good to have articles on a main page have no name, but just "unnamed 'blank'" and with the [unofficial name] tooltip after, it is fine to give them temporary names, as long as those names stay consistent, which they currently don't-Robonate135 (T C) 12:58, 12 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Stop calling the mystery stone blocks Limestone and Marble and Slate and stuff. There's a difference between giving obvious things obvious names (there's not many things stairs made from copper could be called) and conjectural names (naming a block encasing geodes "geode casing"), and giving random names to mysterious blocks nobody knows anything about. Quartz existing gives no reason for marble to exist, anyways. SuperCofee (talk) 16:32, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

“Limestone” image
Not sure what genius keeps changing the whitish stone block image to a darker and worse image of lesser quality. I have to keep changing it back to the brightened and clearer version. But some absolute tool keeps replacing it with a garbage screengrab from the geode section of the video with the HUD and pickaxe in view without any sort of improved lighting. Stop doing that.

"Summer 2021"
¿This update will actually launched in Summer 2021, where the writer listen that?, possibly a lie or even a hoax. --Elr0l0 (talk) 18:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * They literally said it in the livestream... MikhailMCraft (talk) 18:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I am sorry if this isnt what it says but the official subtitles say somewhere in 2021 and if you listen closely it is somewhere 2021, hard with the swedish accent lol. Barnabyland (talk) 11:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh I know Dragonxthe1 (talk) 18:34, 3 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Yeah I watched it Dragonxthe1 (talk) 18:34, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protect This
As Java Edition 1.17 is Semi-Protected, I see no reason to not semi-protect this page.


 * -FavoritoHJS (talk) 18:57, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

See MCW:Admin noticeboard Fadyblok240 (talk) 20:11, 6 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Now Semi-Protected -Robonate135 (T C) 14:34, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Page is an almost-exact copy
This page is an almost-exact copy of Java Edition 1.17. It should be changed to have the same difference as between Java Edition 1.16 and Nether Update, or Java Edition 1.15 and Buzzy Bees. --71.178.41.80 17:46, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Java Edition 1.17 was changed significantly, but I still think this page should have the same relationship with that page as the above pages do. --71.178.41.80 19:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC) They are almost the same again! --71.178.41.80 22:06, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Tomatoes and Tomato Monster
What about tomatoes and Tomato Monsters?

https://twitter.com/Minecraft/status/1312440716124057607


 * I'm pretty sure that was just a demonstration of what you can do with creator tools: https://twitter.com/argo_major/status/1312444253771952129 --Mishell128 (talk) 19:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

They said that was just a demo, not an actual feature JustenDouma (talk) 08:19, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Health of a Warden.
Note that this is a guess, based on the damage dealt. Might have misscounted. Copypasted from Talk:Java Edition 1.17.


 * 47:51 Warden. (And yes, that's 13HP of damage with full Netherite.)
 * For those curious, that thing survived 4 Fully Charged (all crits, ), 3 Partially Charged Bow shots (guesstimate ), 1 70%, 2 10% and 2 100% Netherite Sword swings (guesstimate . This means he has at least

Judging by this, that thing probably has of health. Yes, I have way too much time.

-FavoritoHJS (talk) 19:18, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

It's probably either 80 or 100 though
 * I think it's more like 85, I think the bow shots were more damaging, and I'm pretty sure the netherrite sword swung harder

-JohnWulgaru


 * It could also have armor points like a shulker possibly --Bluecrab2 (talk) 20:37, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

-JohnWulgaru
 * That's possible, although that might make it too vulnerable to potions to accomplish their goal of fear. I think something really cool would be if they regenerate hitpoints and can also crawl into smaller spaces like a player, that way it's a constant threat, since you can't just kite it or hide behind blocks.
 * wither has like, so warden not too op I guess -- Shockingartist (☝🅿🆁🅾🅵🅸🅻🅴 👑) at 15:02, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Archaeology possible items
I don't think the diamond block and emerald block will be actually available from archeaology, they seem to be more of a placeholder until the list of items has been thought of (e.g. bones). Should we actually consider the livestream as facts here? --Robotkoer (talk) 19:46, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

They won't be but I wouldn't bother getting into an edit war over it, I know they put beacons in the end ships at some point but that only lasted a few weeks

Potentially useful Timestamps on the Minecraft Live Stream
This is a list of links to the Minecraft Live stream, where some C&C features are shown.


 * 31:28- Name announced.
 * 36:04- Lush Cave Footage
 * 37:58- Concept Art
 * 39:25- Dripleaf Plant Demonstration
 * 40:24 Improved Cave Generation
 * 42:10 Still
 * 42:47 Dripstone Caves
 * 43:33 Concept Art
 * 44:34 Sculk Growths, Sensor (Redstone Component)
 * 45:13 Demonstration, with Wool Occlution.
 * 46:03 Demonstration, for (even more) Wireless Redstone.
 * 47:51 Warden. (And yes, that's 13HP of damage with full Netherite.)
 * For those curious, that thing survived 4 Fully Charged (all crits, ), 3 Partially Charged Bow shots (guesstimate ), 1 70%, 2 10% and 2 100% Netherite Sword swings (guesstimate . This means he has at least
 * 51:15 Concept Art (yes, that's a scared Rabbit.)
 * 54:10 Goats
 * 54:40 Better Mountain Gen

  <\intermission>
 * 1:03:32 Model Mob Vote Mobs. Might be interesting?
 * 1:40:59 Demonstration of BE Scripts, by the method of Tomato.
 * 1:43:51 And now, via the method of PvE
 * 1:45:08 Sorry, your Golden Skull is locked. Try again later.
 * 1:47:07 Via the method of Parkour.


 * 1:55:02 Amethyst Geodes (Confirmed Rare)
 * 1:57:11 Telescope (Needs Crystals)
 * 1:57:47 Copper Ore (in clusters of veins, even!)
 * 1:58:01 Copper Slabs
 * 1:59:54 Copper Patina Timelapse
 * 2:01:13 Lighting Rod (Attracts Lighting)
 * 2:03:04 Bundles (Arbitrary-type, 1 Stack Backpacks)
 * 2:08:01 Archeology (Wait, is that per-layer gravel?)
 * 2:09:46 Clay Pots
 * 2:12:00 Axoloths
 * 2:06:45 In the Workshop. (?)
 * 2:13:44 Concept Art
 * 2:14:08 Mob Mentality
 * 2:15:27 Concept Art: Axoloth and Warden.
 * 2:15:58 Concept Art: Axoloth, Goat and Warden.

Here are some other miscelaneous links of interest.


 * Minecraft Live: The Recap from Minecraft.net
 * Minecraft Live: Vote For the Next Mob from Minecraft.net. Might be useful for guessing some GlowSquid mechanics.

If there is another useful link, feel free to edit the list.

-FavoritoHJS (talk) 20:11, 3 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Haven't checked everything, but between Amethyst Geodes and Lighting Rod the time stamps are not accurate at all. Seems like most of the time stamps are not accurate, except for the first few I checked. If you fix it, this would be a quite useful list, good job. 185.232.20.216 17:23, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Dirt Slab
Did they(Mojang Studios) really add the fabled and long forgotten dirt slab into 1.17? Disguised under the brush of course. Can we mark the dirt slab as added to 1.17 now, or mark it as partially added? Or should it actually be released in a snapshot first? 108.193.129.103 20:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)


 * It, sadly, doesn't look like it. All the blocks, on which the brush was used, broke. Also, they seem to break just before reaching slab height. So, my guess would be that, once you use a brush on a block, the block will always break. 80.114.143.57 09:35, 4 October 2020 (UTC)


 * When interrupted, the block breaks, as in, when you stop using the brush, the block breaks.

--Benjamin Bryztal (talk) 20:14, 4 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Dirt slabs aren't in. Brushing irreversibly destroys the block, doesn't matter if you stop midway or not. You might be able to accomplish dirt slabs with a debug stick? They'd probably instantly break when it recieves a block update. 190.107.228.203 03:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Change page name
should the page be renamed to the caves and cliffs update, or should it stay as just caves and cliffs, the nether update page has update in the title, but is also known by that name, while this one is known only as caves and cliffs--Robonate135 (talk) 21:43, 3 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Caves & Cliffs is the official name as shown in the promotional banner art (File:Caves & Cliffs.png). Similarly to Village & Pillage it doesn't have 'Update' in the name, unlike Nether Update which does have it in the title. — Thomanski | t | c | 21:49, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

New Items
What all possible and unknown uses? Happyslayerbunny1 (talk) 07:59, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * There are a few blocks showcased which do not have a name or purpose given out and known as "unknown" like "unknown foliage carpet" or "unknown whitish block" but it is possible and most likely that during the development new items will be added, like something unique for the newly voted glow squid. Glowing ink, maybe a few blocks crafted from those sacs. Barnabyland (talk) 20:22, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

maybe you could combine the glowing ink sac with blocks to make them glow. not likely though--Admiral Hoodie (talk) 19:28, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Glow Squids in 1.17?
I might have missed something, but do we really know that the Glow Squid is going to be part of the 1.17 update? I can't find any mention of when the mob of the mob vote will be implemented. 80.114.143.57 13:11, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This is actually a good question. They didnt mention it specifically but it will probably be added because of the simplicity of it, it might take a few weeks. Barnabyland (talk) 20:18, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The mob vote was to choose the next mob to go into minecraft as seen here https://twitter.com/Minecraft/status/1310233069832548353, and the glow squid won, so yes, it is being added.-Robonate135 (T C) 19:07, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, the next mob, but it has not been specified whether that is planned to be in the 1.17 update or later. It is not a question of 'will it be added' but 'when will it be added'. 2019's biome vote was also not specified as to which update it would be part of until during minecraft live 2020 (that being 1.17). So, until we can be sure it will be added in 1.17 (and not in 1.18 or later) we should at least put a disclaimer in that section of the article (even if highly likely to be in 1.17). So, unless you can provide me with something from the devs clearly confirming that they will be included in 1.17, I will put a disclaimer next to the Glow Squid. 80.114.143.57 07:26, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, I rewatched the show, and Agnes said "Glow Squids will look so cool in the caves" at [ 2:11:51], so that confirms they are being added in the Caves & Cliffs update. – Unavailablehoax (talk) 14:06, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say confirmed, but rather implied. I don't really want a repeat of last year, where people thought more Nether biomes were coming due to how Agnes worded something in the livestream. Moreso for her sake, because she did seem to feel guilty about it last year. (Although 1 mob isn't as major as the amount of biomes, of course) Kalkrona (talk) 14:55, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This is different, I guess I should have said more than "Agnes said", since if you go to the timestamp, they talk about how cool it will be with Glow Squids in the caves, so it is almost certain they are coming to the Caves & Cliffs update. – Unavailablehoax (talk) 15:09, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

No copper tools?
You'd think with the addition of copper, that there would be a possibility to create copper tools with a durability somewhere between gold and iron. Or copper wire that could serve as a lossless fast conductor to substitute for lines of redstone dust. Or copper cookware and utensils, maybe. Or maybe a more durable iron alloy than pure iron. ~ Amatulic (talk) 22:02, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * At this point, copper tools, ingots, nuggets and so on are unconfirmed, copper may work like emeralds, and not have armor, tools or weapons made of it, and I do not think they would make copper tools or armor, as it would just add another intermediate set, which would never, or rarely be used -Robonate135 (T C) 17:51, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I hope they add Copper Tools. Though, like Robonate135 said, they are so unconfirmed. We just need to wait and see. 70.179.56.250 17:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * So do I. Maybe we can start brainstorming what the copper tools will look like and the copper ingot. I know for a fact that they will add a copper ingot because otherwise you can't craft anything with copper. I assume that if we are getting copper, wouldn't it be cool if the copper armor could rust and offer less protection and durability? Just my thoughts. Blu Gy (talk) 16:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If rusting is added, it would apply to iron too. I would hope for copper to lead to changes like this:
 * iron/copper alloy that's more durable than iron by itself; if a rusting mechanism is added to copper and iron, then crafting the alloy could be a way to prevent rusting, in the same way that iron+chromium+nickel in the right proportions produces stainless steel that doesn't rust.
 * a copper bowl that can be used as a helmet in a pinch, providing more protection than leather, but with the same durability as leather (the bowl is thin and dents easily)
 * copper wire for fast, lossless conduction of redstone power, as I mentioned at the start of this thread
 * temporarily distracting piglins who mistake a copper ingot for gold (but maybe angering them if they realize it isn't gold they've been examining)
 * higher chance of being struck by lightning when wearing copper armor or holding a copper tool
 * a more reasonable unit of exchange for low-value items, since emeralds are rare and expensive
 * Just some thoughts. Naturally, none of this wishful thinking should be in the article. Amatulic (talk) 17:35, 15 October 202


 * copper could be used to make pipes, basically hoppers but it can transport items but it can only hold one stack of items--Admiral Hoodie (talk) 19:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually a copper pipe could be used to transport flowing water for any length of the pipe, without the flow dissipating after 7 blocks. Items that happen to be in the water could be transported along as normal in water. One end of the pipe would have to touch a flowing water block, and the output end would have to be at or below the input end, and create a new flowing water block there. Amatulic (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I love those ideas. I really hope they will come to Minecraft! :D 70.179.56.250 17:39, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be rude here but this entire conversation kinda violates MCW:TALK as this doesn't talk about the page itself but just suggests new features to the game. :p---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 20:47, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Brush Variant
The page says "Also comes in a blue variant" but I assume that the brush is made from copper (and maybe feather/string) and the "blue" variant is just the patina forming on the copper so maybe its just an older brush (or crafted with older copper if oxidised copper is indeed obtainable). What do you think? XirohpueLynx (talk) 04:36, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That is a pretty good idea, if the brush is made out of copper. But since we do not know much might as well say its the blue variant. Barnabyland (talk) 09:22, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That may be true, but then what about the telescope? Shouldn't that turn blue as well? Just a random question. Blu Gy (talk) 16:16, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, this will be 1.17 on all platforms
I saw someone asked if this will also be 1.17 on bedrock edition, and yes, due to the parity between the two versions, they will both be 1.17, and will both be updated on the same day, exactly like the 1.16 nether update, bedrock edition actually skipped the 1.15 update number and went straight from 1.14 to 1.16, so I doubt mojang would loose parity - Robonate135 (talk) 13:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-Protect
Hey y'all, the amount of vandalism on this page is downright disgusting... can y'all please protect it? I'd love to help with the writing of the page, but I realize that this page is being attacked by non-users(ip's) far to often, and would rather lose the ability to edit rather than deal with the excessive vandalism. Just my opinion. Thanks! 108.193.129.103 18:34, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I totally agree! There is so much vandalism. I don't edit many pages myself, but this page should definitely be semi-protected. 208.104.23.217 19:07, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree too, but you might want to report this on MCW:ADMIN. Amatulic (talk) 20:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, though posting it here will most likely not get it protected, if you do want to get it protected, go to the discussion about it on the admin noticeboard, and add your comment there making sure to start it with to make sure it is known that you want it done. -Robonate135 (T C) 19:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Now Semi-Protected -Robonate135 (T C) 14:34, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Copper Ingot Unofficial Concept
Should copper ingots really be included in the list of planned additions? As an unofficial concept, I think not. Since Mojang hasn't mentioned copper ingots, I do not think it should be listed. Who knows, smelting copper ore might give you copper nuggets, and 4 copper nuggets give you a 'piece of copper'. I do think it likely that copper ingots will be added, but I do not think this warrants them to be under planned additions. 208.104.23.217 20:33, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * According to the minecraft gamepedia rules, no speculation should be on main pages-Robonate135 (T C) 17:36, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, and the copper ingot is speculation. 208.104.23.217 19:37, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Articles
I think we Should start Creating More articles for the things in The Update. When I wrote this, There was only one about Azalea Roots [that i made]. Especially For the new mobs. MineStone (talk) 14:25, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Articles should only be made when development versions are released, see MCW:FUTURE. – Unavailablehoax (talk) 16:16, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I did not see anything in MCW:FUTURE that said that. MineStone (talk) 20:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * ... – Unavailablehoax (talk) 20:37, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh Sorry MineStone (talk) 20:45, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Where is the Warden's Dungeon?
I can't find it anywhere! I keep adding it, but someone keeps deleting it. Why??? It will be in 1.17. It will be in the Deep Dark and will have chests, barrels, and a crafting table. Who deleted it? Can someone please put it back and tell the person NOT TO DELETE IT!!!!! Thank you. 70.179.56.250 17:07, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It's alreaady mentioned :P---HumiebeeDiscuss anything with me Look at my edits 20:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Though, I still can't find where Minecraft mentioned that the "Warden's Dungeon" will generate at all. Perhaps someone is removing it because they think it shouldn't be here? 208.104.23.217 16:07, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Just what I mean. Who is deleting it? 70.179.56.250 17:16, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Please someone re-add it!!! 70.179.56.250 16:35, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Could we have confirmation one way or the other posted here? I'm guessing it was just a building the developers used to showcase the warden, but I do think we should confirm that. I especially think this after all of the re-adding and removing this structure has gone through. PegasusDust (talk) 19:28, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I tried putting it in the "unconfirmed features" section but somebody removed it again. I really think it deserves to be mentioned considering it *might* be a new generated structure. Unless there's direct confirmation that it isn't, it needs to be listed on the update page, and if there is, then that confirmation also needs to be on the update page.
 * I don't think we should repost it until we get confirmation. The developers were announcing the warden, not a new structure, and I don't think we can infer that the "warden's dungeon" will be added until we find a source. Either way, I agree that we need sources for both possibilities. PegasusDust (talk) 21:08, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Dripleaf Plant Talk
Hi. I was wondering about the fact that the wiki said that the small Dripleaf plant is varied in models. But, when I looked back at Minecraft Live in the lush cave debut, I noticed that the small Dripleafs are just rotated like the tops of some blocks and shifted around the blocks they were on, like flowers and tall grass. Is it okay if I edit that because I really don't know. Also, looking back, the dripleaf plants drop you after 2 seconds (40 ticks). If there is anything else anyone notices about the Dripleafs and small Dripleafs, please let me know here.


 * Blu Gy (talk) 20:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Warden damage is wrong
Another topic higher on this page has it right - looking at the stream, that's 13 damage on full Netherite armor. Full Netherite chops away 80%, so its full damage is 13×5=65 damage, not 30. Can someone please edit the info for the Warden? --210.6.32.108 10:11, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * 80% is actually the maximum protection for full netherite; armor actually uses a more complex equation, shown on . With that equation, the possible unarmored damage that can display damage on the healthbar with full netherite armor are between 29.705 and 31.159, (graph) so  is most likely the unarmored damage, although  is also possible but less likely.  – Unavailablehoax (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Redirect?
If you type "Warden", "Axolotl", "Glow Squid" or "Goat" in the search bar, it will redirect to this page. Shouldn't each of the mobs have their own page, since, even though we know little about these mobs, we actually know something? --Universespy (talk) 14:42, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Per MCW:FUTURE no, not until they appeared in snapshots/betas. Dhranios (talk) 15:37, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh, ok --Universespy (talk) 12:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC) Well, since the Caves and Cliffs beta came out today, we were able to make pages on the added features, but everything else is unknown because there is no way to see what they are. Let's just wait.
 * Blu Gy (talk) 21:15, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Snowier Snow
Are we certain that powder snow is not "snowier snow?" My interpretation of Vu Bui's "also" was that "snowier snow" was powder snow, which would be added in addition to the goats he had mentioned earlier. PegasusDust (talk) 00:49, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Archeology Concept
Hi everyone. I was looking at Twitter (via following the reference links) to find more info on the update and found https://twitter.com/_Ulraf_/status/1321582554584141824 which has an image of what looks like archeology artwork. Can someone please add this info to the page and find more things to be added? Thanks. Also one other thing. Can you try and recreate the texture for a clay pot without the ceramic shards? It would help to know what a clean pot looks like.
 * Blu Gy (talk) 17:24, 29 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks! It's currently being optimized, and then it will be uploaded to File:Archaeology concept art.png. – Unavailablehoax (talk) 17:56, 29 October 2020 (UTC)