Talk:Structure

Please reply here about discussing deletion
Thank you, YaYaBinksMinecraft  ( T 15:23, 11 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you're going on about with deletion, but you did not move the page correctly - in the dropdown next to the search box at the top of every page is a "Move" option; this is used to properly move pages with their history intact, which is required for the Creative Commons license the wiki uses. I've performed a history merge to restore the history, but I'd appreciate you making a point to use the movepage functionality in the future instead of just performing copy-paste moves. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:03, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Changes
I suggest to remove the Oceans and Deep Oceans paragraphs from this article, they belong more to biomes now (as well as the cliffs that would be more like the mountain biomes now). --Pauolo 07:50, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. World generation has been overhauled in such a way that any terrain-related entry now depends on the biome, Lakes possibly excluded. Most sections of this article could be rewritten or removed. LTK 70 16:05, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Only mountains and oceans are now biomes. Lakes, caves, and such are still plain naturally generated features.  Verhalthur (talk)(contribs) 16:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * True, but the superficial structures in particular - cliffs, oceans, beaches and hills - no longer exist in the way they did before. And Trees as a generated structure are way too general now, they really belong in biomes as well. These sections could use some heavy editing. LTK 70 19:36, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The whole section on the Overworld needs editing. Someone please help. - Asterick6 00:28, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Terrain generation order?
Any interest in terrain generation order?

Currently I think:

Natural terrain generates first and foremost.

Then water/lava holes.

Strongholds generate before abandoned mines. See southwest stronghold in seed: gargamel. It completely intersects with a major abandoned mine and is unnavigable.

Strongholds generate before dungeons (And their connecting caves), but before (do you mean after?) regular caves. See northwest stronghold in seed: gargamel. A zombie dungeon is within the stronghold, and a large cave seems to run through it which is connected to the dungeon.

Torches within a stronghold may generate after buttons.

Villages generate after ravines. This explains their solid cobble base extending to the bottom.

--PlNG 02:36, 21 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Sugar cane overwrites trees. Sand and sandstone overwrite caves, but dungeons come after sandstone. Sugar cane, flowers, mushrooms, and tall grass come after caves, as they can be found in caves. I believe coal overwrites iron. Mineshafts generate after caves and ravines. Lakes overwrite trees, sugar cane, cactuses, and bedrock. Bedrock overwrites caves, but not mineshafts, dungeons, or strongholds.


 * So I think Stone/Ores, Trees, Sugar Cane/Cactus, Caves/Ravines, Bedrock, Strongholds, Mineshafts, Villages, Dungeons, Lakes. HotdogPi Come to my page! 23:44, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * From the source: Terrain (all stone) and oceans, bedrock, surface (dirt and grass/mycelium or sand/sandstone), caves (filled with lava below layer 10), ravines, abandoned mineshafts, NPC villages, strongholds, water/lava lakes, dungeons, ores (dirt, gravel, coal, iron, gold, redstone, diamond, lapis), sand, clay, more sand, trees, huge mushrooms, flowers, tall grass, dead bushes, lily pads, mushrooms, sugar cane, pumpkins, cactus, water/lava source blocks, desert wells, snow/ice. Caves and ravines only replace stone, dirt, and grass. Ores only replace stone. Structure generation is quite complex and MCP doesn't do much to deobfuscate it, so I have no idea how they interact with each other or caves/ravines. In general, the larger something is, the earlier it's generated. -- Orthotope 10:31, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Deep Oceans.
The article says that certain seeds will produce a deep ocean covering the entire map, does anyone have any proof, or should this be deleted from the page. Thanks Timberdoodle 18:18, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I edited it to make sense. There is no way someone can confirm an ocean covering the entire map, as the map is infinite. --HexZyle 06:55, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Glowstone veins
I think that like trees or mineral veins do, gowstone veins should be mentioned. Could someone check the language of the section and improve it? (because I don't speak a very good English)[hakim]

And a picture is really needed, but I don't add one because a section shouldn't be made by only one person, for neutrality and better quality. Could anyone try to improve it? [hakim]

More structures
Why isn't Nether Ruins in here? Is it because it's in a pre-release or because nobody has bothered to put it in yet? Also, Obsidian Towers seen in The Ender should be added at some point --HexZyle 06:56, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Needs cleanup
The images in this article need to be put into galleries for each section like it is in Ravines because the page is becoming too long with all the new images that people keep adding. - Asterick6 06:48, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * stop adding pictures.--Yurisho 07:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Galleries
I just added galleries to this page. Is it okay? Hoverfly 19:54, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Pits?
I was walking around in my server when I came across a strange natural accuring pit that is about 2 times deeper than a ravine. if you don't believe me this is the seed:3441329631990535006, and the axis are X: 199 Y: 70 Z: -1346 Sluggy 15:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

oh yeah, and its also way too large to be a cave, its probably 4 really short ravines merged together, although what bothers me is that it is almost completely round...
 * Is it like this thing?--Yurisho 21:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Kind of, but it goes directly down. (I'm sluggy and I don't want to log on to post this message :P)

Pirate Alcove?
"Pirate Alcoves Main article: Pirate Alcove Pirate Alcoves are generated crevices in cliffs by beaches, filled with sand, wood, gold ore, and treasure chests surrounded by cobwebs. These are extremely rare due to the certain circumstances needed for them to be generated in the minecraft world."

What? Are these in a new snapshot? Secret Friday updates coming back? Is the Cake Really a Lie?

Climbable hills
It says in the hills section that hills are always possible to climb by virtue of the terrain generation code. Perhaps this was true in the past but unless you only count shallowly sloped things as hills and all else as mountains, it certainly isn't true now. I offer as disproof of this the hill at X:775 Z:395 in the world with seed: -856521759450123267.109.157.172.161 18:21, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the cake(pirate alcoves) is a lie, sounded like a stuiped addition anyways.--98.111.219.231 04:57, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

They are indeed not always unclimbable Lynder 14:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Desert Wells

 * There's one here, if someone is searching it (12w05b) :

x: -314.5

z: -104.5

Seed: -1705077854720202779


 * To me they look more like shrines. Has it even been confirmed that they are wells? Why is everyone calling them wells? Wells are deep while this just has a 1 block deep thing of water in the center. And on that note it looks like a shrine.


 * I believe it's just the water inside, and how convenient it is that it's spawned only in Deserts.


 * I dug down quite a way in creative mode when I found one and I eventually came out into a Stronghold. Could anyone else try that out and see if it's the same? (70.70.20.71 03:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC))


 * Did not happen to me. Tried three times on three different worlds, none had Strongholds underneath. I guess it was mostly luck. Sorry.


 * Maybe the srine/well coud have something to do with a new boss?ViralGameOver 23:38, 1 April 2012 (UTC)Brett


 * This is complete speculation, but it might be a "bottomless" well that takes you to a new dimension (Notch, please implement this idea if you aren't already doing so).

Add huge mushrooms
As above. Xeoxer 13:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Or you could do it yourself instead of telling other people to. Electrk 18:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Better Organization Needed? Perhaps By Source Code?
I have noticed that many of the generated features on this page, are not thoroughly organized. Many of them, such as rivers and beaches, are counted as "biomes" within the source code. Others, such as mineshafts and strongholds, have the distinction of being toggle-able. I don't really know how to look at the source code, but if someone who has access could list the different generated structures (and how they are organized), here on the talk page, that would be an immense help to me. I would be willing to organize the page afterwards. ~GorgeousTaylor


 * Are there any objections to resorting content by the order things are generated in? The only disadvantage I see is that the distinction between terrain and structures will be lost, as structures are created in the middle of the generation process. -- Orthotope 03:04, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * As no one has voiced opposition in the last two days, I'm going ahead with this restructuring. -- Orthotope 07:21, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Mountains and oceans
Are mountains and oceans still are generated structures? Or is the fact that they are biomes makes them not count?--Yurisho 04:50, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I include them because they are still structures that are generated during the terrain generation. Is there a need not to include them here? The biomes page is on the biome topic, the info here is for describing the structures that are generated. - Asterick6 02:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If you say that mountains are still structures then forests are also structures, which they are clearly not duo to their un-unified structure - one tree in the forest is not connected to another, one block of sand in the desert is not connected to the other. One may say that individual trees are structures so individual mountains should be as well, but the fact that they are biome specific makes them, in my eyes, part of a different category. I suggest the list be split to two - global generated structures, and biome specific generated structures. Anyways, oceans are not structures, because they are more like deserts then forests - they do not have a generated structure in them, but are composed of a certain block.--Yurisho 07:00, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I think there's some disagreement as to the purpose of this page. To me, 'generated structures' means things like dungeons, NPC villages, and mineshafts. Currently, it's more of a page on world generation. This happens in a series of steps (e.g., general topology, surface layers, vegetation, ores, caves, structures), and it would make sense to organize the page the same way. Mountains and oceans are topology, desert sand is a surface layer, trees are biome-dependent vegetation. Ores, caves, and most structures don't care about biomes. The features that are affected by the 'generate structures' option could be marked as such. If we take this approach, I'd suggest renaming the page to something like 'World generation' to make it clearer what belongs on it. -- Orthotope 07:49, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Misleading Desert Wells
In the page, it states that a well has a 1 in a thousand chance of spawning on ANY sand block, then states this is rare. However, if this was true, then we would be seeing desert wells all over the place. A one in a thousand chance is a 10 x 100 area that has a very likely chance of having a well spawn there. Which means, they would be really common.

--Pi399 21:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing. Maybe 1 per 1000 x 1000 area? And they generate when generated structures is turned off, too. HotdogPi Come to my page! 23:44, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The 1/1000 chance is correct, but it's applied per chunk, not per block. Fixed article. -- Orthotope 07:45, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

The State of the Page
The page seems to be talking about features that are either just remarkable accidents of the terrain generation, or features that are built into the generation by default. This causes confusion, as there is an option ingame called "Generated Structures" which is not the same as the wiki's Generated Structures. I propose either a split to Generated Structures and Generation Features ( or Terrain Features), or the complete deletion of the features content. This page is called Generated Structures which means it needs to be about only those. Verhalthur (talk)(contribs) 15:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed. When this page was first made the "Generated Structure" title had no in-game usage, but now it's different and the page should reflect the change for the benefit of the user.--Yurisho 21:25, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The only things affected by the 'Generate Structures' option are strongholds, NPC villages, and abandoned mineshafts. Splitting those off (or deleting everything else) would produce a short page with no unique content, as all three have articles of their own. Currently, the page covers all aspects of world generation, so I think a better solution would be to rename it to something more appropriate. -- Orthotope 22:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Good point. It seems to me that this page should be a disambiguation and the content of the current page have a new title. Maybe Terrain Features?  Verhalthur (talk)(contribs) 14:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)