Talk:Tutorials/Wheat farming/Archive 1

Plant Growth Rates
Is anybody aware of which patterns make crops grow faster? Notch has said there are faster growing patterns, but I haven't noticed this in-game at all...

-buster2Xk

I wanted to kill some time so I decided to mess with the farming in a scientific setting. The results were quite strange. On a paradise, island, small, square map I found that crops grow at a variable rate. Two blocks of dirt set atop the Indev House next to each other. Two seeds in each. One will grow to wheat producing after 36 minutes while the other won't grow at all. Likewise I made pillars from the "ocean" floor to the top, then put a single block of dirt atop them. One crop would grow to full potential in about 36 minutes, the other barely past stage 2 until 47 minutes had passed.


 * So it seems that plants will grow at a varied rate. Kenji 03 12:17, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems like this is still the case. I planted a section of hydrated field around a water block and am getting fully grown wheat in waves, and some is not maturing at all. I have torches set to allow crops light at night and am wondering if the torchlight is somehow cumulative with sun for purposes of determining plant growth. TheYeti 18:37, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It appears that working around your crops - say by planting new ones, or tilling the area with a hoe - can directly trigger growth spurts in nearby plants, or speed up hydration. - Bomb Bloke 12:57, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

In optimal conditions 95.2% of crops will be grown after 18 minutes and 40.7 seconds. BOOM! Mathified. -Ms_Fish

Psuedocode is unclear
In Farming, the psuedocode mentions some functions whose meanings are unclear. --Mozai 00:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) horizontalNeighbors(block).  Is that the set of blocks at the same altitude that are adjacent orthagonaly (4 blocks), orthagonal and diagonal (8 blocks), or only "horizontal" as per the first diagram in Farming instead of the vertical arragement in that same section?
 * 2) CropsOnXNeighbors(block) I can assume is the set of orthogonaly adjacent blocks in the X axis if-and-only-if the blocks are crops.  CropsOnYNeighbors(block) is confusing, since the article already stated that crops must have dirt below and air above, so this function should always return an empty set.  That would mean ( CropsOnXNeighbors(block) && CropsOnYNeighbors(block)) would always return false.
 * 3) CropsOnXYNeighbors(block) I'm not sure what this would return.  The set of blocks adjacent east, west, above and below if-and-only-if they are crop blocks?  Since this would only return a non-empty set if there are crops in the adjecent east or adjacent west blocks, why not just reduce this compound boolean expression to CropsOnXNeighbours(block) instead?

I'm pretty sure "y" should be replaced with "z" in all of this psuedocode. The confusion stems from the fact that the coordinates in Minecraft are wrong (IMO). X should be N/S, Y should be E/W, and Z should be up/down. GurnBlanston 16:06, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


 * SubOptimal Pattern

I just ran a test with regard to diagonally adjacent wheat. For this experiment, I used five 50x8 rows of hydrated soil. Half of row 4 and all of row 5 had a checkerboard pattern of seeds for a total of 300 crops. Rows 1-3 were the control group, containing 300 crops with no adjacency, even diagonally. All crops were fully exposed to the top of the map. Seeds were planted with the time locked at midnight. The time was switched to noon and locked for 20 minutes, then locked at midnight again for counting of the crops. Of the 300 diagonally adjacent (checkerboard pattern) crops, 4 fully grew. Of the 300 non-adjacent (control) crops, 88 fully grew.
 * Re SubOptimal Pattern

Tomorrow I'll make a larger field to test cross-shaped crop placement by position (separate statistics for centre and points) against another control group. (Genshou 22:58, 16 May 2011 (UTC))

"crop.getFarmlandIn8BlocksBelow" What does this refer to? This section seems to imply that if you stack farmland tiles 8 high and hydrate them you add 6 to the growth rate of wheat grown on the top block. This portion of code seems to have no justification or clarification in the entire rest of the page
 * Pseudocode still unclear

Also, the following section "if (crop.hasNeighborCropOnNS ..." will HALF the growth rate if the farmland either has neighbors to all sides, or diagonally. This is at odds with other sections of the page which claim "It doesn't matter if there are crops on neighboring farmland or not." and in the suboptimal growth rate illustration, that the middle tile would have a growth rate of 5.0 as opposed to the 5.5 maximum listed above it (5.5/2 != 5.0). It is also at odds with the section above the pseudocode which says "For the fastest growth, watered farmland with crops on all neighboring squares or in rows is ideal" Can someone please provide clarification? SomeKindOfOctopus 03:27, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Then who has the last saying about this? Again: there's a difference when one chooses to create just a row or a big, full crop field, right? That's what the code says at least. Renkien 02:43, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed

After careful mathematical consideration, the methodology of the pseudocode has become clear to me and I have added comments to that extent (for what seemed confusing to me). If you want, I can try re-writing it further so that it's even more clear. BobChao 02:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * When I read the pesudo-code it seems to indicate that growth rate can range from 1 to 4.75. What I read is that it starts at either 2 or 4, gains a possible .25 or .75, and then possibly halves.  I don't see how this can produce the values of 5.5 or 5.0 that the article mentions.  Thanks for your help. Pareidolon 01:10, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see where I went wrong now. I was just confused by the for loop because I'm not used to seeing them with a single input. Pareidolon 22:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Pseudocode unclear for me.

Lets go through it step by step.

if (crop.getBlockBelow.isHydrated) growthRate = 4.0; else growthRate = 2.0;

Allright. Hydrated blocks start with 4, unhydrated with 2.

for (farmland in crop.getFarmlandIn8BlocksBelow) //Immediately surrounding Farmland with crops {       if (farmland.isHydrated) growthRate = growthRate + 0.75 else growthRate = growthRate + 0.25 }

For each neighbouring farmland block that's wet you get a bonus 0,75, each dry farmland block gives you 0,25. You can calculate that the maximum growthrate you can get in total up to here is 10 (4 for a wet block, plus 8x0,75 for neighboring wet blocks). Now, the next part is the weird part.

if (crop.hasNeighborCropOnNS and crop.hasNeighborCropOnEW) //If (north OR south) AND (east OR west) have crops growthRate = growthRate / 2; else if (crop.hasNeighborCropDiagonally) //If any immediately diagonal square has a crop growthRate = growthRate / 2;

So, if a crop sees other crops on a tile that is on the North or South side, and theres also a tile on either West or East, we get halved the growthrate. If that is not the case, we look at any of the diagonal squares, so northeast, southeast, southwest and northwest. If any of them have a crop, you also get halved the rate.

This code seems to imply that it would be best to plant crops in long thin stretches, giving you a growthrate of 10, leaving the neighbouring land tilled and hydrated, but not seeded. The article, however, claims that 5,5% is the max. –The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.241.209.142 (Talk 07:31, 30 September 2011. Please sign your posts with
 * I agree that maximum growth rate should be 10 for center blocks in these patterns.

HHH   HCH    HHH    C=hydrated farmland with crops HCH   HCH    CCC    H=hydrated farmland without crops HHH   HCH    HHH
 * 4+(0.75*8) = 10 -- Karyonix 17:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Harvesting Section Outdated
So I was doing some looking around and noticed that farms actually have a 7th step on which it is harvested. The harvesting section currently is misleading and I would take care of it myself but... It would seem weird to fix the text without updating the picture, and i don't have an updated picture.

Also, this paragraph "As the water is hidden, seeds and wheat are easily gathered by running along the central lane, and tilled tiles are not trampled in the process. The method works for Sugar Cane as well. Shown here with some wall blocks removed to show where water should be placed." doesn't make any sense, it appears to be an orphan left from a previous edit. GurnBlanston 16:12, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Fields destroying themselves
So i'm trying to start farming to use a plot of land near my base, but my land which i've just ploughed keeps removing the plough state of itself and reverting back to dirt, is there any reason for this? Some of it stays ploughed and then becomes hydrated, but many of the unploughed land tiles will revert back to dirt after a few seconds. I'm rather irritated, is it a feature or a bug? -Ryan --92.3.8.140 22:10, 6 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a feature. If you walk over the plowed tiles, they have a high chance of turning back to dirt. The same is true if you walk over crops. Just quit walking on them (and keep mobs off of them), and it should be fine. --Coolpilot 18:44, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, by crouching (default is LShift), you can walk on field tiles without damaging them. I'm not sure what happens when you jump/use ladders/land on field tiles while crouching though... Crazylemon64 02:40, 24 November 2010 (CST)

Types of Farming
Is "farming" cacti and reeds considered farming as well? --DigiKep 18:50, 29 August 2010 (PDT)
 * No, I think that would be growing. --TomCatFort 18:45, 09 October 2010 (GMT+2)
 * I agree that wheat farming needs a page to it's self but there should be a page list all other types of farms every from trees to cobblestone. --Tnarg 11:04, 19 October 2010 (CDT)
 * That page is Renewable Resources. —KPReid 02:11, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Space above crops
I was wondering if anyone else noticed this;

I'm experimenting with underground farming, and I noticed that if you don't leave a block open above the crops, they don't seem to grow. I'm not certain of this (my computer actually crashed in the middle of experimenting...damn alpha), but i've tried it a few times with little success.

I was trying to get the farm set up so I cannot accidentally walk on the crops, so I was putting blocks over all the crops. That way I can walk through the paths w/o worry of trampling. But, I was not getting good results from the farm. The last one wasn't growing at all. So I removed a block over one to see what would happen and it started to grow.

If anyone else could experiment with this and confirm, I'd be appreciative. Pakratt0013 09:17, 22 October 2010 (CDT)
 * At least they dont grow with no space above them. But then I light them up only with torches, no direct sunlight, might be because of that, too. -- Luttz


 * I have a farm in direct sunlight except for one block above one of the planted seeds; that one has never grown. I have no data about whether more than one block's space might be needed. I'll add the requirement to the article. A further experiment would be whether a glass block obstructs growth too. —KPReid 02:08, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


 * BUMP! Wheat farms require light, and if you were using stone or dirt as the block above it, it will not grow. The only blocks able for use are glass, leave and ice. R ocĸetor talk  06:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Two different issues, 1) wheat farms do require light and 2) you do need to put a transparent block (air is fine) above the wheat etc or it won't grow. Torches underground work for 1) and air (only one I've used) and apparently also glass, leaves and ice blocks work for 2). 14:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wheat crops under dirt cannot grow. Wheat crops under air, torch, sign, glass, fence, stairs, piston, farmland can grow. -- Karyonix 15:26, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Tools
I've been wondering, and haven't had the time to test; do shovels dig out soil blocks faster than other tools, and if so, should we add the shovel under the tool2 field for the template transclusion? CyborgDragon 05:45, 5 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I just did a quick test and I'm not noticing any difference between my diamond shovel and bare hands when digging out unplanted tilled dirt. If there is a difference, its too small of one for my blond addled brain to pick out.  --XipXoom 05:51, 5 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that using a shovel is MUCH faster than by hand (or other tools being used inappropriately); when I first played the game I couldn't keep up with the pick and kept destroying blocks beneath. After some time, it's too hard to notice because one will get used to it. However, the speed doesn't change between types of shovels being used; they only help the "life expectancy" of the tool.

Reed and Cactus farming
I think that Reed and Cactus farming should be in this page(Or article?).

I agree fully on that, they are still types of farming

How?
how do i get the crops so i can start famin beacuase ive been tryin 4 ages with my hoe but it is just not workin

-If you right-click on a dirt tile with grass while holding the hoe, you will sometimes get seeds. Then, if you right-click on any dirt tile while still holding a hoe, you will get land which the seeds can be planted on. Good luck! -Magnus743

Rename
Okay... I don't think everyone might agree with this but right now in Minecraft, this word, "Farming" has a lot of meanings. Some of the more common farms might be cacti, reeds, obsidian, trees and mobs. But since this farming is actually an official feature in Minecraft, it deserves an article for itself. So I propose to rename this article as Wheat Farming or something similar. Opinions? --Scykei 12:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * BUMP. I disagree with renaming it. The other kinds of farming (gold-, diamond-, obsidian-, tree-, etc. farming) are using farming as a metaphor for producing a reliable supply of that good in the same sense that actual farming produces a reliable supply of food. I think it's fine to call actual farming "farming" and the header "This page is about wheat farming. For information on the systematic production of other resources, see Renewable Resources." is a good way to point people to the other forms. Steviesteveo 14:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that there should be a rename or migration to the actual topic. Wheat farming is wheat farming, not farming in general. There are different aspects of farming as Scykei mentioned: wheat farming, item farming, mob farming, and then there is melon farming. The page FARMING should be used as a DISAMBIGUATION page and a short description article giving an overview of farming and the history of it, and that points to wheat farming, melon farming, pumpkin farming, item/mob farming, and newer types of farming in the future. It's going to have be changed sooner or later, so might as well do it now. -Asterick6 04:28, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Soil or Field?
In the block template, it is named Soil, but on the page it is called a Field. Which one should we make it? -F1racer101 19:52, 9 December 2010 (CST)

I just thinks that Field sounds better Benawesome150 21:33, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Since dirt is called dirt and not soil or field, we should use soil because it is more accurate to the actual term. Btw this is an encyclopedia isn't it? -Asterick6 04:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Seeds
Noting Seeds redirects here but they are also a stackable item with a graphic and an item data value. So maybe they need their own section or stub. --JellyfishGreen 11:21, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite
It seems to me that this page is in need of a complete rewrite. It seems to repeat itself a lot and its fairly inconsistent. Some clarity in the data would also be good, as well as some new pictures. Any volunteers? Does anyone agree or disagree?

Growth Rates
Where did you get that information on the growth rates i have been trying to find that for days. I am trying to mod minecraft and make wheat growth faster but I cant find that file could someone put the name and location of the file in the topic please

Do Mobs Destroy Farmland?
Do Skeletons, Spiders, Creepers, etc. Trample crops? I've had my game on peaceful because my farml is a floating, open island, and animals spawned there when I placed torches so I removed all the torches. If I leave it in darkness and aggressive mobs spawn, will they also trample the crops? --Darksoulknight 13:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Aggressive mobs DON'T spawn on Peaceful.Drenay 13:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I know that, lol. I'm wondering if when I put it back on Normal or Hard, will the aggresive mobs trample my crops? --Darksoulknight 14:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. A block of glass directly above wheat eliminates all trampling from mobs except the chicken and spider.  Only a lit grassless enclosure will keep them out.PlNG 02:54, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Use redstone torches, these keep the aggressives and passives/ neutrals out, then make a fence around it with a door. R ocĸetor talk  06:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Spiders do not trample crops --HexZyle 04:47, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Lava instead of water?
Is it possible to use lava to grow crops instead of water?

Apperantly, paulsauresjr can. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu9vXVYbt3Y&feature=feedu

-MasterSorez

You mean sugar cane? No, but you can remove the water and replace it with lava (then it will not grow though)

You mean wheat? Very slowly. The lava doesn't speed it up though.

You mean trees? No. It will catch fire.

You mean cactuses? No. <font color="Red">R ocĸetor <font color="Black">talk  06:32, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Water underneath soil works
At least, it did for me as of 1.5. I didn't have the space to have pools or a ring of water, so I decided to mine down one more block, fill it with water, and put soil above it. The soil IS hydrated... it seemed like it even hydrated faster, though that could have just been coincidence. ~Shippinu


 * I'm working on testing the optimal growth patterns on a test world this week. I'll try putting water beneath the soil to confirm this. (Genshou 05:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC))


 * I've tried this a few times and never found it to work; the farmland decays instead of hydrating. You may have had a block of water 4 blocks away that you didn't consider. Pareidolon 01:06, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Couldn't get this to work in 1.0, but wasted a lot of time trying. Have removed the tip suggesting it based on my experience and comments on Hydration indicating that water only hydrates down. -kevmurray 0813, 24 Nov 2011 (UTC)

Rename to WHEAT Farming
There's a reason, you can farm melon, pumpkin, sugar canes, cacti, mushrooms, etc. CosmoConsole 	<font color="#D2691E"> my page! my talk! my contributions! 14:19, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * How about we combine all the farming pages under a single subheading of farming? –The preceding unsigned comment was added by (Talk)  Please sign your posts with


 * That's the other way around. CosmoConsole 	<font color="#D2691E"> my page! my talk! my contributions! 06:14, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe we should make the actual farming disambiguation article now. Farming page to link to all specific types of farming, and then the tilled dirt article that describes that actual block itself. You guys know what I mean now right? -Asterick6 04:32, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

New article page on Tilled land/soil/dirt?
I've noticed that many articles link to farmland, tilled land, tilled soil, but there is no page for "Tilled Soil". I don't know if it's a technical block or a real block type, but I was thinking that maybe there should be a section detailing the tilled dirt and the uses and relationships for various crops, characteristics, and bugs for it because no page actually describes it in detail about all aspects of it. I don't really know the procedure and best name for creating a page so I'll leave this up to the experts to decide and make the correct title for it. Asterick6 06:55, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There is already a page : farmland. If you mean to separate the Farmland and Wheat Farming pages, I agreed. And it should be on the Farmland page. – Scaler (t) 07:02, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * With the addition of melons and (growing)pumpkins, its wrong to place farmland at wheat farming, while it is so much more. Swpe 14:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes there IS a page named Farmland, except it REDIRECTS to THIS one. After the implementation of Melons, Melon farming, and Pumpkin farming, I think there is a reason to have a completely independent page about the actual TILLED DIRT by ITSELF. What I mean is an article describing the aspects of the tilled dirt - the dirt that occurs when you right-click dirt or grass with a hoe. And I believe "farmland" is called TILLED dirt since it is dirt that has been "tilled" by a hoe. Like I said before, I don't know whether tilled dirt is an actual block or a technical one(seems like a technical block), but I feel that there needs to be an article that has the Tilled Dirt (farmland) Tiles section, Hydrated (farmland) Tiles section, Farmland Block Decay scetion, and specific bugs and details related directly to the tilled dirt itself, e.g. torches cannot be placed on tilled dirt blocks. The info on this page should be migrated over to that one. Also, having mentioned the technical block detail, I think Tilled dirt should be included in the article for technical block types if it is a technical block. I can make a page without discussing, but I just want to address this since people are still relating minecraft farming in general as wheat farming. But since melon blocks are now officially part of the game, and that they do require tilled dirt to grow, I think it's now obsolete to think of farming as only wheat farming. Therefore, the Farmland page shouldn't be a redirect. Also all mentions of "crops" in this Wheat Farming page should be changed to "wheat" as wheat is no longer the only crop in minecraft. ..and btw all this was a bit unnecessary, but you get my point. So someone please help migrate it or I'll do it tomorrow. Thanks for hearing me out.
 * -Asterick6 04:19, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * If this is an official vote for splitting the page, I'm all for it. --King Starscream 14:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree, lets seperate. Swpe 14:20, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Can we move it now? I don't know if we need a vote or something... - Asterick6 05:20, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Done it. Farmland now is a page. People those think it should be Tilled Dirt instead, go over the farmland talk page and debate it there. And we should reconstruct this page. Swpe 09:47, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Wheat growing glitch?
When I playing Minecraft Beta 1.7.3, I made Wheat farm. While I planting seed, 1~2 Crops are ready to harvested! Without using bone meal! I didn't even finished to plating seed all over the farm.. Why this happened? Can anyone confirm it on 1.8.1 or 1.9?


 * There is 0,000000001522435234375 chance for wheat to grow to maturity in 7 seconds under optimal conditions. Maybe you just lucky? — MiiNiPaaT 14:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * And where did you get that number from? I dont see it on the page. Swpe 14:27, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "Every second, crop can grow up 1 level with a probability of growthRate/100 (maximum 5.5%)." The rest is a math. — MiiNiPaaT 14:56, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * 0,055^7 = 1,522*10^-9 . Yup correct, I think I`ll put that on the page Swpe 15:00, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Optimal Patterns is unclear
The picture of optimal and sub-optimal patterns should be more clear in showing if the blocks without crops on it need to be farmland or not. Also it should be more clear what should be next to the pattern. Can the pattern repeat, or does it need something in between each pattern? Matt49 16:53, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Wheat automatically dying when light level 0
I found out that wheat automatically dies (dropping seeds (and wheat, if fully grown)) when they are in light level 0. Can someone add that info? Thanks :)
 * Wheat crops grow in light level 9 or more in the block above them, survive but not grow in light level 8 in the crops block (when lit horizontally), die in light level 0-7 in the crops block. -- Karyonix 15:24, 21 October 2011 (UTC) edited Karyonix 01:13, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Wheat Not Growing
I have ran some tests that seem to suggest wheat does not grow if not within an area that is considered always "loaded" even when all players are offline, or otherwise when there is no one online within a certain distance of the wheat then they are considered "unloaded" and do not grow. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Tests ran on 1.8 and prerelease 1.9.3. It seemed the wheat would only grow when I was online standing near it.

Optimal Design for Larger Farming
http://imdeity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3644

I don't think there's a better way to save time vs this method, if your aim is to gather a large amount of wheat from frequent visits.

Automatic farming methods addition?
I would like to suggest a new addition to the automatic farming methods section.

My idea (pardon the lack of image, but I cannot provide at this time. Perhaps a later time) is based on a automatic farm I saw on a server I frequent.

The way it works is as follows:

At the foot of the farm, is a small channel to catch the items and flow them down one path. The farm land itself is a series of 7 (?) block long farms that continue end to end so that water may run from one farm to the next before reaching its limit.

At the head of the farm is a lever, hooked up to an inverter, hooked up to a series of sticky pistons positioned directly behind the farm, holding up a block (of any kind that holds water back) to keep a series of water blocks from flowing prematurely onto the crops.

This resulting combo (presuming the farm is prepared so that it is hydrated from underneath a wall to direct the water down the farm) results in a farming mechanism that is easily extended and can haul in an insanely large amount of seeds and wheat.

I intend to include an image tonight of this farm. Please wait for me to upload an image before including it.

Da ninja 23:17, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

You don't need sticky pistons though: A piston facing upwards is enough to block water flow. I agree on your suggestion - there should be a section showing optimal ways to make an automatic harvesting farm.

Merge all farming related stuff
May i suggest that all farming related pages (Such as Melon farming, Pumpkin farmin, Cacti Farming, Sugar Cane Farming, Tree farming, and Wheat farming) be merged into a single page (Farming)?

Da ninja 23:23, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Most of the different methods of farming are different enough that they shouldn't be included on the same page. For example, Cacti and Tree farming don't need water, Cacti, Tree, and Sugar Cane farming don't require hoes, melon and pumpkin farming require you to leave empty farmland near the seeds, wheat farming uses more complex mechanics and mathematical computations than the others, and their automated methods (when available) are different as well. I think the current method (a "Farming" disambiguation page) is probably best. 184.174.156.214 15:34, 4 December 2011 (UTC)