Talk:Bedrock/Archive 1

I think I managed to break Bedrock
False, see below

During my tests, I managed to break bedrock 3 times. To do so here are the exact steps I followed:

- Launch your Minecraft game with the following command line: javaw -Xmx7144M -Xms1024M -jar Minecraft.exe

(You can set more than 7144M if your computer can handle it)

This will avoid the "Minecraft has run out of memory" error.

- Dig a 1x1 hole starting from the surface and ending at the bedrock. The hole must not go through any cavern (well, actually I never tried but I think it will raise the chances of success)

- Using Single Player Commands, type /brush sphere tnt 6

(You must have a tool like a wooden sword to use this command)

- Place many TNT spheres to fill your hole, like this: http://i.imgur.com/NhFEc.png

- Break the TNT at the top of the column

- ???

- Profit

At first I though one of my many mods had something to do with it, but using a fresh minecraft.jar gave me the same result. To avoid user errors, I uploaded a world with some TNT already placed. Here it is: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GW23MAL2

I used a 2500k@4.6Ghz with 8GB of memory, and Minecraft 1.6.6

Here is the result (on another map) I had: http://i.imgur.com/2QvcA.png

Then maybe there's another reason but I now think the bedrock is breakable in Minecraft.

EDIT: Actually someone told me that placing TNT using SPC will ignore the bedrock and replace it. Mystery solved.

Bedrock and hitting with hands/tools (was: -1 can be reached)
When a number in Java reaches it's maximum value and is increased by one, it will be the minimum value afterwards, so theoretically you can mine bedrock long enough. --Ftzhbv 11:30, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Lets clear this one for good... All in all, hands or any tools, bedrock does not break, ever. I already added this info to the actual page. -- Bugi74 12:14, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The damage counter is a floating-point value; it does not overflow that way.
 * The damage added per hit is typically very small, less than 1.0, and once the accumulated damage reaches 1.0, the block is broken. (Even if this had been implemented with integers, the hit values would probably have been 1-1000000, and the break-point damage something like 10000000, so still no overflow/wrap around.)
 * A negative hardness value is handled by own special piece of code, which forces the damage per hit to be zero, so the accumulated damage never goes anywhere when working on such a block (and bedrock hardness is -1 as we all know).
 * There is even a tiny little addition for mouse click handling, where the target block is checked for being bedrock, in which case certain pieces of code are not executed.

Bedrock and explosions/TNT
The only ways (that I can think of) to proof it can be broken with explosions is to provide a world save ready for execution of explosion(s) that end up in a broken bedrock (at least if tried enough many times), or a very very elaborate explanation of source code. (Videos or screenshots are easy to fake, so they do not proof anything, but they can be used to explain easy test cases to try).

(This is a reply to 'Youtube vid of bedrock being broken', but since it is no longer about the video, I made this new section with better name for this:) After quite a bit of reading of the source code (version 1.3.something), I also came into the understanding that explosion damage does not stack/accumulate, not even for single "damage ray" of single explosion, let alone different rays or different explosions. Also, the damage is not recorded anywhere, the test is simple: calculate explosion's remaining power at next test spot along the ray; subtract a value derived from the block's resistance from that power; if there is any power left, the block was not strong enough and is marked for destruction; if the power became less than zero, the block was able to withstand (and stop) the blast, and nothing is done the block this time, and forget that anything was even tried to be done to it. Caveat, I didn't debug/trace that code while exploding things to check for real runtime values and operation, so there is still a small chance... but I'll spend more time on this issue only if I see suitable proofs or test cases (i.e. a save file ready to be executed for "big bada boom") or source code snippets with interpretations that indicate I could be wrong. -- Bugi74 12:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Youtube vid of bedrock being broken
DO NOT REFER TO THAT VIDEO on the wiki page

Referring to the video titled Minecraft - Even Bigger Ball o' TNT. The existence and continued references to this video have caused a LOT of harm in any discussion about bedrock, making the few facts buried in a quick spin to 90% nonsense and "wows!". So please, until someone manages to prove the video legit (hint: impossible), or at least proves that bedrock could be destroyed with TNT, DO NOT REFER TO THAT VIDEO on the wiki page. Feel free to discuss about it on the forums or on this talk page (see below). -- Bugi74 16:37, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Are we sure this vid wasn't faked with a map editor? There was much debate on reddit about this.
 * It was the general consensus that it was indeed done with a map editor for a couple reasons. One of them being the fact that  because this was done on a frozen lake, the first TNT blocks to fall would expose the stationary water below.  Not only would this prevent TNT that fell into the water from destroying blocks, it also makes the massive dry crater impossible because TNT cannot remove water or lava source blocks.  The other main issue is that even if is possible to destroy bedrock with TNT, it is highly unlikely that the explosions from individual blocks of TNT would carve out a perfect sphere like the one shown in this part of the video.  On the other hand, clearing a sphere of all blocks (including bedrock) is a common feature in Minecraft map editors.  When all this is taken into account, it becomes pretty clear that this section should either be removed or reworded to reflect the dubious authenticity of the video. Dailyapple 16:38, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

It is not a perfect sphere, also, it should be considered that lag may have made this happen. The upper half of the ball certainly did nothing to bedrock, and the lower half is not 360,000 blocks. I think that if someone made that size ball, detonated it and as it was blowing up about 250 tnt blocks around a piece of bedrock also blow up, the bedrock would be destroyed due to lag glitching its explosion resistance. Someone should remake this video with a rectangular tnt area to disprove or prove the map editor theory. Bobbobbob 07:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC) bobbobbob


 * There is nothing to be proven or disproven here. Anyone who has played with largeish quantities of TNT knows that craters left from large TNT explosions are anything but "clean". And yes, a sufficient quantity of TNT *could* destroy bedrock, but said quantity would crash Minecraft every time, regardless of what computer was running it - MC simply isn't designed to be able to handle large explosions. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 15:29, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see how TNT could destroy bedrock, period. The way the code looks, explosions are completely independent of each other, ie. two explosions do not cause twice the damage to a given block, but rather that one amount of damage twice, even if the two explode at the exact same moment. Damage on blocks does not appear to accumulate, nor do blocks appear to have a "temporary health" value as was previously believed. If someone with more understanding of the code could step in and verify this, it would help quite a bit. - Alphap T ~ C 08:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I stepped in, read above in the section 'Bedrock and explosions/TNT' -- Bugi74 12:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Is this still possible? Pokémon Crafter 19:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Never was. – ultradude25 ( T at 19:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * (Moved from unnecessary new section to here. I was few seconds from undoing the whole addition with a comment including "newer was" :P -- Bugi74 19:58, 20 April 2011 (UTC))


 * It's about 360,000 TNT in ONE block space to blow up Bedrock right? That ball was hollow. --R ocĸetor talk  09:59, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, the current evidence seems to indicate that it does not matter if it was/is hollow or filled, how much, or where the TNT is; it would not break bedrock anyway. (This comment just to avoid responses like "so, if it had been filled, it would have worked...") -- Bugi74 18:16, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Breakable
I think it's breakable. Once I made mountain with an absurd ammount of TNT. We (it was in a SMP server) have a base with two floors, the first one made of obsidian and the second one made of bedrock, the obsidian floor was blowed up and we saw a floating bedrock block, we were able to collect it
 * Unless this was a server you knew for sure to be unmodified, I'd ignore any results. More in the section 'Bedrock and explosions/TNT' -- Bugi74 12:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Breakable?
Is it possible to break in Alpha/Infdev?
 * No Toadbert

How deep is Alpha?
Does anyone know how for down bedrock is Alpha? 501st_commander
 * Deeper than 32 im pretty sure.Toadbert
 * Bedrock is at the bottom of the map, between 0 and 6 layers thick. It is entirely possible for your map to have no bedrock, though rare. CyborgDragon
 * I've been told it's 64 deep from sea level. I remember having sort of tested this, but I'm not sure. Also, the skylimit is 64 above sea level. - DuoNoxSol
 * The map is 128 blocks tall, from top to bottom, the bedrock at the bottom is 6 blocks thick (spattered), and sealevel is at 64 blocks.

The Nether
I think that the nether has two layers of bedrock - one at the ceiling, one at the base. Can anyone confirm this? Sompresneo

It does, you don't take void damage from getting over ceiling bedrock. Calinou 21:27, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

/solid?
Doesn't seem to work. Tested as a mod on my testserver. Nothing happens. Also placing a bedrock direktly from the inventory does NOT kick me from the server. Don't know how to get rid of it now though. :/ Matti-Koopa 08:55, 5 November 2010 (CDT)
 * Well, it has to be in Classic (not Alpha) and you have to be an admin. -F1racer101 00:23, 17 November 2010 (CST)

Name confirmed?
Has the name Bedrock been confirmed by notch? -F1racer101 00:23, 17 November 2010 (CST)
 * I'm not sure, but it's widely recognized enough to be official. I believe Notch has actually called it bedrock in his twitter feed. - DuoNoxSol
 * Upon editing the material into your inventory, the inventory mouseover text in Beta confirms its name as “Bedrock”. Mr. DOS 18:15, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Article on Bedrock not up to date :p
I think some of the information provided aren't quiet correct anymore?

1) It is now possible to place Bedrock when given by Admin via Console on SMP without getting kicked, though it is NOT possible to remove it ingame.

2) The /solid command doesn't exist anymore. --Brand666 04:06, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Amount of TNT needed to break Bedrock
On the page it says Bedrock is so solid it would take 4.5 million TNT to break. Where does this number come from? Is it real? JesusChrist666 02:56, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone must've assumed that since TNT has 4 block resistance, it does 4 damage. TNT actually does 50 damage at best. Alphap 19:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * So can we get a revised idea? Is it physically impossible to deal that much damage simultaneously to a piece of bedrock? Darkid 02:38, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, you've just posited a great 'craft scientist question. I could sketch you out a test you'd have to try via mod, I suppose.  First, work out how far (in levels) TNT will drop on activation before exploding.  Then, place a bedrock block in a shallow (say 1x5x5) depression.  Make a ring of TNT around that bedrock piece (so 8 blocks).  Continue that ring, layer by layer, up to the maximum distance the TNT will fall on activation before exploding.  Rig the TNT tower (somehow) to activate all at once (not entirely sure this is even possible) so that the entire hollow stack of TNT will fall down into the depression around the bedrock piece.  Press the button, and wait for the smoke to clear (or your computer to reboot).  If block remains, then the answer is likely no (although you could also place a 2-block high pillar of TNT beneath the block and above it too, although lord knows how you're going to activate that at the same time as the rest of the stack).  This setup should keep all the TNT in one place (mostly) and reduce the "It's raining TNT!" factor a bit. -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 08:56, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * (Edit note: There's also the Machinima interview where Notch more or less details that it's functionally indestructible, however you can apply the above to obsidian blocks, if you're looking for that sort of fun. -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 09:00, 11 March 2011 (UTC))


 * I'm sure you can explode a whole tower of TNT simultainiously using some redstone, But it'll probaly crash your computer after it explodes--Blueblade11 10:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Misinformed
Using the Zombe mod, it is possible to break the Bedrock. The proper tool is the Pick axe, as it will dissapear with other tools. Also, it is stackable. –The preceding unsigned comment was added by Generalcheif123 (Talk 10:12, 11 March 2011. Please sign your posts with !
 * "Using the Zombe mod", stop right there. It's a mod, therefore completely invalid. – ultradude25 ( T at 00:58, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Inaccuracy
Using half my cobblestone supply, i made a climbable tower to the roof of the nether and there was earth bedrock. I'm going to change that.