Talk:Zombified Piglin/Archive 1

Question about the Pigmen:

In the second paragraph, it says that they drop Grilled Pork and Feathers, but under the Drops-section, it only says Grilled Pork. Which one is correct?
 * Appearently they do drop both feathers and grilled pork, but feathers are so rare that the editor who put in "grilled pork" only didnt know it dropped feathers too. I havent seen them drop feathers yet either. --BlueLegion 11:26, 15 November 2010 (CST)

Pigman AI
There's been some noise on the forums about Pigman AI. Most of the data seems doubtful, but there are some interesting observations. At the moment, I don't think there's enough evidence to call it fact, but do you think we should at least mention the theory here?
 * No, speculation is not allowed on the wiki. Miclee 17:30, 5 December 2010 (CST)

Attacking Ghasts?
As I was building in the Nether I saw a ghast wedged under a ledge such that he was effectively grounded - no space above or below. There were some zombie pigmen in the area and I didn't want to risk hitting one with an arrow so I walked over to the ghast to just kill it with my sword. On the way over one of its fireballs hit a zombie pigman, which then proceeded to run at the ghast and push it back some. The next thing I knew the ghast started taking damage and eventually died - zombie pigmen attack ghasts!

This literally just happened (paused the game and ran to the wiki to see if anyone else has seen this happen), so I don't have any more data but some MCEdit experimentation with similarly grounded ghasts is required. I don't normally see zombie pigmen go after flying ghasts, so it could be a pathing or distance issue. I also don't know if ghasts trigger all the zombie pigmen in an area like the player does on damage as I was too shocked to see one attacking a ghast to notice. RestfulMonad 19:50, 21 December 2010 (CST)


 * I got another ghast spawn in a tight place with two zombie pigmen nearby. I got the ghast to shoot one and he ran right towards it while the other one continued to wander aimlessly. I'll add a line to the Trivia section about this. RestfulMonad 05:01, 22 December 2010 (CST)

Major misinformation corrections
I've reviewed related decompiled source code (alpha 1.2.6) and tried to do experiments as proof before making these corrections. It's possible that there are errors or inconsistency in my finding, e.g. SP/MP inconsistency. If you disagree, you need to present reproducible counterexamples. Xfs 07:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * They do not drop feathers.
 * There is no evidence of they avoiding Ghasts or lava.
 * Their hostility will only increase, never decrease. And the hostility will be saved in NBTTagCompound as "Anger", this is why their hostility keeps the same whether you exit the Nether, exit game, or not. This is confirmed with experiments by myself.
 * There is no drowning under lava. Experiment proof: there is no air marker when you are under lava.
 * They will only become hostile to players, never to anything else. I couldn't reproduce the behavior that they turn hostile to Ghasts.
 * I made a mistake. I forgot the inheritance of Zombie Pigman from superclasses, where there is a characteristic that mobs can actually become hostile toward other mobs which is inherited by Zombie Pigmen. The ineffectiveness of the last experiment might be caused by the damage dealing method of fireballs. To be specific, Zombie Pigmen will turn hostile to fireballs per se if hit by explosion which disappear afterwards, and will turn hostile to Ghasts only if directly hit by fireballs which deal 0 damage. I just found this mistake when rewrting Health/Damage. Xfs 09:53, 28 December 2010 (CST)

Revert by User:Kizzycocoa
I added some new content after undoing revision 36310 so if you want to revert it to the lastest version that I contributed, it should be revision 36349. There is a discussion about this edit war on my talk page. Your opinions are welcome. Xfs 16:34, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw. that's a reason why I reverted it. For one, it's not a zombie sub-class. It's a mob. Sub classes are not in Minecraft. At all.
 * for two, I dislike the term "non peaceful". they are clearly peaceful. As such, they are neutural.
 * for three, you removed history on what zombie pigmen used to do.


 * overall, I see it as a sloppy edit that is harmful and misleading.--Kizzycocoa 10:40, 28 December 2010 (CST)


 * It is implemented as a subclass of zombie which means Zombie Pigman is a kind of Zombie. For example, Burning Spider would be a subclass of Spider, and Cobble Creeper would be a subclass of Creeper, as mentioned as prefixes. Zombie Pigman inherits the walking speed and dealing damage properties of Zombie, so they have the same walking speed, deal the same damage, and so are the other same properties. And they both inherit from the Mob class.


 * I removed the history section because it didn't reflect any difference between now and then, and contained incorrect information.


 * "Non peaceful" means that they only spawn when the difficulty is not on Peacful, not that they are not peaceful.
 * Zombie Pigmen are supposed to be immune to lava and fire, but if they are in lava for long enough, they will be damaged. They do play a burning animation in sunlight, but are unharmed from it.
 * This statement is self-contradictory. How are they damaged by lava if they are immune to lava? And this is not history because it's also exactly the same now.
 * Despite wielding a golden sword, they deal 2.5 damage instead of the normal 2 damage.
 * This is also not history.
 * Zombie Pigmen, prior to the 10th of November 2010 update, would never forgive the player for attacking them. Now after a certain amount of time has passed since an attack, they will become neutral.
 * This information is incorrect as I pointed out in the talk page. I can send you the source code if you want to review them. And this is also not history.
 * A direct hit by a Ghast's fireball will cause a Zombie Pigman to run directly towards the Ghast and attempt to attack it. This behavior has only been observed if the Ghast is touching the ground, usually occuring when the Ghast spawns under a low ceiling. Only the Zombie Pigman hit by the fireball will attack the Ghast - nearby Zombie Pigmen will not change behavior.
 * As the above three statements are either incorrect or not history, i merged this into the previous section.
 * What do you think now? Xfs 17:00, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * subclassed do not exist as of yet. so that means nothing.
 * peacefukl-only spawning also that means nothing. they are still peaceful. slimes spawn on peaceful too. yet, they're aggressive, albeit small ones can't hurt you. but they try.


 * that is true. bobbing up and down, they can get damaged. it is likely a game issue.
 * that can be removed, yes.
 * that is wrong. it is correct. they did used to never forgive the player. also, it IS history.
 * that can maybe stay, but I doubt it is only if the ghast is on the ground.


 * overall, three misinformed edits, one iffy, and one that's acceptable. That's the bottom line.--Kizzycocoa 17:17, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add, about the 'subclass': If anything, they'd be a subclass of pigmen. Miclee 17:33, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It's worth pointing out that Xfs is using the word "subclass" in its programming context, where one object in the game is derived from another one. So to make a Zombie pigman, Notch started with a Zombie, and then changed some of the parameters. Therefore, a Zombie pigman, in programming terms, is a subclass of the Zombie class of objects. A suitable non-programming term might be genre and sub-genre. Kizzycocoa's statement about subclasses not being in Minecraft is wrong, because objects, classes of objects, and subclasses of objects are everywhere in Minecraft. That's why the blocks are basically the same, with just a few differences between them, they're all subclasses of the basic "Block Object". --DannyF1966 17:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought writing about spawning restriction of difficulty would be helpful, but I'd also agree if this is omitted. Again, this is not misinformation, this is only omittable information.
 * Subclass is a taxonomic rank, an abstract relational concept to define the relation between Zombie and Zombie Pigman. If you really dislike the wording, how about writing it as "Zombie Pigman is a kind of Zombie"?
 * Zombie Pigmen do suffer falling damage due to bugs in collision algorithm. I've proved this by setting logging break points in the fall function to observe falling distance. They constantly fall a little more than 4 meters, occasionally fall more than 60 meters. As falling damage is something completely irrelevant to lava damage, I can't agree with the original sentence which implies that the damage is related to lava. You're still not incorrect to assert that "bobbing up and down" causes the damage, only less accurate. And is there something about this that was different the past and can be counted as history?
 * Zombie Pigmen still do not forgive the player now. Here is a video proof for Zombie Pigmen being still unforgiving. The reason is explained in the talk page. As they are always unforgiving, there isn't any history to mention.
 * I have confirmed and explained how the Ghast hostility thing works in the talk page.
 * I didn't removed any of the correct information in the history. I just moved the non-historical information to the previous section.
 * At last, I never intend to harm or mislead, or I would not make such logical arguments here. Please stop using that kind of bad-faith assuming words.


 * Could you please state clear your opinion now on these issues so that I can continue contributing to that article on our consensus? Thank you. Xfs 02:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)