Talk:Advancement

Specific Data On Advancements / Upcoming Data
I've got a post on reddit (can't post link figuring I'm technically a new user) wherein I'm doing some investigation into what Advancements are currently capable of, and what they might do in the future. Does anyone have any interest in getting this info on the Wiki, and if so, how do you want me to go about it? It's all hyper-technical info, so should it go on another page? Calmbit (talk) 22:43, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, put the link. If it doesn't let you, just put it as plaintext, and leave off the Reddit.com part.
 * The more the merrier. Although we can't have speculation on the wiki. But hard knowledge of what's possible, and syntax, and existing advancements, that would all be welcome. Give us a link and then let's discuss. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 23:36, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's the link to the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/62ie4k/17w13a_advancements_infodata/
 * No speculation, mostly raw discussion and dissection about the syntax of the advancements JSON files. – Calmbit (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2017 (UTC)


 * In addition, has some great info on the new advancements in his post on the Forums: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/redstone-discussion-and/command-blocks/2809368-1-12-custom-advancements-aka-achievements - it would be great if this wiki page could be fleshed out more.  –Goandgoo ᐸ Talk Contribs 10:43, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

About the meanings of "Advancement"
Mojang changed "Achievements" to "Advancements", and the Chinese translator team is having trouble deciding the translation of the new name. So I figured I'd ask for you guys' ideas on this change - What is the subtle difference? Just talk about it English-wise, it can help us determine the Chinese translation. JackAlpha26 (talk) 07:05, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * If I had to guess, "advancement" is meant in terms of progress, like "technological advancement" 73.225.24.71 07:20, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * OK thank you. More people come in and discuss plz? I would like to collect some more thoughts. JackAlpha26 (talk) 07:26, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * If I achieve something, it has a connotation of hard work, and completion.
 * If I advance, it simply means I've moved forward. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 15:20, 9 April 2017 (UTC)


 * OK! Two answers suggesting the same meaning now. Also our own discussion led to the same preference earlier today. Thanks all, hopefully we can figure out a name soon : ) ——JackAlpha26 (talk) 15:56, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * &#x1f44d; I don't know any Chinese, but if you can share the results in any meaningful way, I'd be interested! – Sealbudsman talk/contr 17:23, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Sure! Currently the majority of us are tending towards a word close to "progress". I'll keep track of further discussions, and when we make advancements I can tell you about it :D This kind of game feature names need to be translated carefully, can take some time ——JackAlpha26 (talk) 04:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Advancement "Serious Dedication" bug.
The current requirement for "Serious Dedication" is to break any tool. This is considered a bug however and will be fixed on release (https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-117001). Should this be mentioned on the page or should we wait till it has been fixed? --PepijnMC (talk) 19:01, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Sure! I put it in. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 22:25, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Just an update, the bug in question has been fixed. --Pepijn (talk) 22:40, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Conditions
The condition list is lacking a lot of stuff but it will become a mess if we list every possible conditions with all its "sub-conditions" (Like a real mess, see https://pastebin.com/zjJZsmNY ). So what do you people reckon would be the best solution?--Pepijn (talk) 22:53, 10 May 2017 (UTC)


 * If someone could make a mockup of a wiki-formatted, comprehensive condition list, we could start thinking/talking about ways to present it better. It's a distinct possibility that there are potential presentations that could commnicate all of the necessary information without being an unusable mess. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:01, 11 May 2017 (UTC)


 * This is what I have so far https://pastebin.com/F6wr0Zeg. I think it includes everything, but I could have made some mistakes of course just because of the sheer quantity of text (and the fact that I made it late at night).--Pepijn (talk) 03:17, 11 May 2017 (UTC)


 * As you can see there's a lot of repeating parts, so maybe it's an idea to only specify those parts once and refer back to them? --Pepijn (talk) 22:36, 11 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and updated the list and just made it collapsed for now. If someone has a better idea, please let us know (or just go ahead and change it of course). --Pepijn (talk) 17:08, 15 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Is there a way we can make a treeview with multiple collapsible branches instead of just the entire thing collapsing? Oozebull (talk) 21:08, 15 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes, loadpage'd sections are used extensively on chunk format (and any page involving NBT inheritance). It looks not too difficult to modify collapsible to support lists too (collapsible table rows are already supported, which basically works the same as nested lists). –Majr ᐸ Talk Contribs 12:27, 16 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I've updated the condition list to include nbt inherited sections now. --Pepijn (talk) 12:44, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Tamable mobs
, If we could use Category:Tamable mobs to DPL-generate the list, it would be more maintainable. I was just thinking if they change the requirements of the food advancement, for instance, it's obvious and someone will update this page immediately. But if they add a tamable mob, we'll probably forget to update this -- if it's a static list. That's all I was thinking. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 01:32, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Advancement Rewards
How should we show that an advancements grants rewards? For most advancements this isn't an issue, but this new one "How Did We Get Here?" added in 1.12-pre2 currently has a reward of 100 experience. This might be the only one that currently grants a reward, but there might be more in the future. - Oozebull (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Another column in the table? – Sealbudsman talk/contr 16:08, 11 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Someone will have to edit the advancement template. https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Template:Advancements. --Pepijn (talk) 18:07, 11 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I can take a look at that once i'm done slogging though what i'm currently doing --Oozebull (talk) 18:08, 11 May 2017 (UTC)


 * . I've added it to the table. – ItsPlantseed ⟨₰|₢⟩ 08:49, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

"Prerequisite" term in header is misleading
"Prerequisite" implies that it is required in order to get the advancement, when in fact advancements can be obtained in any order regardless of parenting. As such, I propose that some more accurate word be used instead. Maybe "Parent"? Qwertyuiopthepie (talk) 10:45, 12 May 2017 (UTC)


 * 'Parent' sounds good to me. Pepijn (talk) 11:27, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Load advancements pointless empty categories fixed
Before the templates can read categories for each advancements properly, they won't be shown in pages other than Advancements (regardless of their namespaces). a20001017 Talk 08:07, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

What will happen with an old (pre 1.12) when this is updated?
There is missing some text about how this will deal with an older saved file. Perhaps should we add the "advancement revoke everything" as a suggestion for anyone wanting to wipe clean and try this after update? /83.255.21.112 20:42, 30 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Advancements are a completely new system, old worlds from 1.11 or below will have no advancements completed. The command to revoke every advancement is already mentioned on Commands anyway. I don't think specfific information like this is necessary here. --Pepijn (talk) 21:08, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Hidding part of the condition tree
There's a lot of conditions available and the tree is too big. Isn't it possible to hide compound's content by default? It allows people to only see full data of specific conditions without having to scroll forever. I tried something on my personal page, but there may be better solutions. --Mlakuss (talk) 09:13, 2 June 2017 (UTC)


 * See Talk:Advancements. --Pepijn (talk) 11:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Trigger and conditions list
Currently, the triggers are displayed in a table and the conditions are listed in a huge pile even though not all conditions can be used at once but depend on which trigger is used (which also changes the description of conditions such a distance). I suggest to change the table and the list of conditions to a section for each trigger with its description and an available condition list (an example can be seen on my userpage). --Pepijn (talk) 13:15, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I think you make a good case. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 18:41, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The only problem I see is that it adds a bunch to the "table of contents". I don't know if it's considered a major problem or if it can be "fixed". --Pepijn (talk) 18:52, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * If you wanted to hide the headers from the TOC, you can do the semicolon trick, like .  On the other hand, having a TOC that includes that, I think that's appropriate, except definitely floated to the right, using  .  –  Sealbudsman talk/contr 20:01, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Which pre-1.12 achievements did not become advancements?
I'm trying to figure out which achievements did not become advancements, and whether or not they could be re-added either as an advancement with an advancement json file, or as a function to be called by the gameLoopFunction gamerule. I feel like this should be in the trivia for either advancements or achievements, but I'm finding it hard to view the old list of achievements within the Minecraft wiki, as the table listing the achievements and what platforms they are available for do not mention the PC version, even in older versions of the page. NickNackGus (talk) 01:55, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The first 34 achievements (up to and including Overpowered) were in the PC edition. The rest were not. -- Orthotopetalk 02:30, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * This should probably be mentioned in Achievements. —Fenhl 00:57, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not confident in editing the wiki myself, but here is what I've got. Feel free to edit this, as I highly doubt it is acceptable in its current form. I don't care if it winds up in the Achievements page or the Advancements page, so move it as you see fit. NickNackGus (talk) 01:13, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Achievements from PC

Semi-protection
Please semi-protect the page of advancements page.--Beans1512 (talk) 08:14, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

The Display Tag
Does omitting the display tag make it never show up at all in the advancement map?

--MCweb 22:23, 23 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes. --Pepijn (talk) 22:49, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Location Criteria
If I use it to test for a whole number coordinate, will it succeed only if I'm precisely at the north west corner of that block, or will it succeed if I'm anywhere in that block?

--MCweb 04:21, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Precisely iirc, use a min max range if you don't want that. --Pepijn (talk) 15:25, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

New 1.13 mobs/items in advancements?
Can someone verify if:


 * Breeding turtles can unlock The Parrots and the Bats, and is required to unlock Two by Two?
 * Defeating a phantom can unlock Monster Hunter, and is required to unlock Monsters Hunted?
 * Eating dried kelp can unlock Husbandry and is required to unlock A Balanced Diet.

-EatingSilencerforBreakfast (talk) 20:22, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


 * No (bug), yes but can't be completed at all because turtle breeding does not trigger the advancement (bug)
 * Not yet, not yet
 * Yes, no
 * Extra: the new biomes have not been included in adventuring time yet.
 * --Pepijn (talk) 21:01, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


 * As of 18w10a, the Phantom is counted towards the two monster advancements, and Dried Kelp is counted towards A Balanced Diet. Adventuring Time now has 40 biomes required instead of 36.-EatingSilencerforBreakfast (talk) 21:10, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Verified and added to the page. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 12:15, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Hidden (recipe) advancements
I just want to make sure that this didn't go unnoticed, also because this page lists all available advancements, including some hidden ones.

Apart from the already mentioned advancements there's also a completely hidden tree which starts with minecraft:recipes/root and contains a ton of advancements (9 directories full of them) which are solely used to unlock recipes for players. I don't really see any extra advantage to list all these (seems like overkill to me, also because they don't have names nor descriptions) but I am wondering if it could be useful to at least mention this detail?

-- ShelLuser (talk) 02:49, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

A Furious Cocktail actual requirements
"A Furious Cocktail" lists something under "actual requirements (if different)", but the actual requirements are what the game says, have every potion effect at the same time. I think that should be changed and instead underling "every potion effect" and list them there. 4hrue2kd83f (talk) 23:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Redundancy in advancements such as "The Parrots and the Bats" and "Best Friends Forever"?
Is the information in the actual requirements section necessary? The files don't specify specific animals that can/can't be tamed or bred, it just uses the respective trigger and leaves the conditions empty. So, do we really need this information in the actual requirements section? -PancakeIdentity (talk) 06:29, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Move criteria triggers to their individual pages
Currently, we have a ton of criteria triggers. They take up too much space in the page when editing, making editions to other parts difficult. I suggest moving criteria triggers to their individual pages, much like what we did to enchantments, commands, and status effects. liach (talk) 03:56, 5 April 2019 (UTC)


 * . I'm not sure I like moving them each to individual articles, and these (unlike e.g. enchantments) are things where you might want to be able to CTRL+F the entire page.  I think it might make sense to move the whole list into its own article while still keeping them all on one page.  Granted, I haven't actually done anything with advancements and haven't used the information myself.  --Pokechu22 (talk) 04:12, 5 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I agree with pokechu, plus a page per trigger would not really be enough info per page to warrant one. FVbico (talk) 07:24, 5 April 2019 (UTC)


 * How about moving all triggers out to one trigger-dedicated page then, like the page for raids.dat format? Or we can just move all advancement customization related content into one new page. liach (talk) 08:54, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Is that reference page?
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Advancements&diff=1234117&oldid=1234114 See this pls180.190.51.87 23:01, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Add a "hidden" section to the tables?
We have a few advancements, such as How Did We Get Here and Arbalistic, that are hidden until they are unlocked. This isn't really communicated anywhere here, and I suggest that we should add something to the table template to be able to communicate this where needed. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 22:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure. – Nixinova Nixinova sig1.png Nixinova sig2.png 22:45, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd do it myself, but I don't really know how to edit templates, and I don't wanna break anything. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 23:19, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, you're wanting the template changed. Probably better to request it on Template talk: Advancements. – Nixinova Nixinova sig1.png Nixinova sig2.png 23:42, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Split proposal for advancement triggers
I am proposing that the list of triggers be split off into a sub article titled "Advancements/List of triggers". Makes the table of contents a reasonable size and allows for some images that were removed because of the large size of the table of contents to be restored to the page.


 * as nominator. -BDJP (t 17:18, 21 June 2019 (UTC)


 * . I don't think each trigger needs its own page like enchantments or effects, but one page for all of them would be great. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 17:35, 21 June 2019 (UTC)


 * , the page is becoming too long because of this. --Robotkoer (talk) 09:33, 26 June 2019 (UTC)


 * split has been performed. -BDJP (t 04:05, 5 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Looking at the page now, maybe just having all the JSON stuff there would be better? -PancakeIdentity (talk) 05:37, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Does this really need it's own page?
Personally I don't think this should be its own page. Advancements are still just achievements. They're not different because they have a tree system because the old Achievements had that, too They're not different because they have a different name because Playstation's Achievements are called "Trophies" yet it shares the Achievement page. They're not special because they can be modified with a DataPack because we don't separate Bedrock and Legacy skins from Java skins. They're not like the "texture pack" to "resource pack" case because they barely changed when the name changed, but resource packs are extremely different from texture packs when it comes to functionality. ML isDreaming (talk • contribs) at 23:39, 04 July 2019 (UTC).
 * None of this is a valid argument. Advancements are a game feature completely separate to achievements. End of story. It doesn't have to be "special" or anything at all. It's a feature, so it has a page. – Nixinova Nixinova sig1.png Nixinova sig2.png 23:44, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Should we give trophies their own page then? ML isDreaming (talk) 14:14, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * No, because "Trophies" are simply achievements. If the Bedrock Edition was released for PS4, it would apply there as well. -BDJP (t 15:25, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * But "Trophies are a game feature completely separate to achievements. End of story. It doesn't have to be "special" or anything at all. It's a feature, so it has a page." How is this different? (Sorry if I sound jerkish btw. Not my intention.)--ML isDreaming (talk) 06:05, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Trophies are literally achievements, just renamed. Advancements are completely different to achievements. – Nixinova Nixinova sig1.png Nixinova sig2.png 00:10, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Advancements are just more customizable Achievements. --ML isDreaming (talk) 01:08, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Advancements and Achievements have very different functionality. On the surface, they seem similar. But once you really get into it, they are extremely different. Using your example of texture packs vs resource packs, on the surface, they should be the same page because they change textures. But resource packs have the ability to change much much more. Similarly, achievements and advancements are both achievement systems on the surface. However, advancements use a completely different system internally and allow for complete customization and use in datapacks outside of being achievements. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 17:25, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Didn't the old Java achievements use a completely different system internally and have complete customization through texture packs? --ML isDreaming (talk) 06:05, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I meant that advancements and achievements have a completely different system internally. And no, achievements were not customizable through texture or resource packs. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * You said "completely different system internally" the first time. What are you correcting? --ML isDreaming (talk) 17:20, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Also the "Last response. This is dumb" thing was pretty salty. Just because I have a differing opinion of you, doesn't validate you to be an dick. I've been respectful and open the entire time. I just have a different opinion on how it should be and was wondering why it was like it is. --ML isDreaming (talk) 00:06, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Move all JSON to the triggers page
I think it'd be a lot more useful to just have all the JSON info on one page. Using this for actually creating advancements is annoying as you have to have two windows open. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 18:48, 20 July 2019 (UTC)


 * I know there hasn't been any input on this, but I'm gonna do it soon unless there's any valid disagreements. It just makes sense. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 00:03, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Avoid using the "Actual Requirements" tab unless necessary?
It seems like some of the "actual requirements" are just repeating the description. For example, the description of Enchanter says "Enchant an item at an Enchanting Table". The actual requirements say "Enchant any tool or book", which, if anything, is actually less descriptive. Or Zombie Doctor, in which the actual requirements explains the process of curing a zombie villager. That seems like information better obtained elsewhere on the wiki.

I guess I'm asking, should the "actual requirements" be filled in for every advancement if repetitive, and is it this column's job to explain game mechanics? -PancakeIdentity (talk) 19:26, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Change from tooltips to footnotes (or something else)?
Some of the advancements (such as Adventuring Time) display all of the required items/mobs/biomes/effects in tooltips. However, tooltips don't show up in mobile view (at least for me), and you have to keep hovering over the underlined text to see the information; it also cannot be copy/pasted without viewing the page source. Would it be better to instead list the required items in footnotes or some other method (e.g. something like a tooltip, but stays on the screen when clicked on)? – Sonicwave talk  17:34, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Update the "Isn't It Iron Pick" advancement picture
Hello,

I have noticed that at the beginning of the Advancements article, a picture with "Isn't It Iron Pick" is selected, but it is in a different format. So are the other advancements. This means that this image is outdated, so we need to fix it. If you could just upload a new version of that photo, that would be greatly appreciated. The image is located. --Purpur4 (talk) 13:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposal to move the Advancements/Conditions/* pages
All of the shared data structures used by predicates, loot tables, advancements, and possibly more in the future are under Advancements/Conditions/. I think it would be better if they got a shared and permanent location. I'm leaning towards Predicate/*. Is this something that's possible to do and does it seem like a good idea? Misode (talk) 21:46, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Definitely possible, and . FVbico (talk) 21:49, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Why put reference again?
Why put reference? Look this

A Complete Catalogue
The requirements for this advancement are to tame all the cat variants. How many variants are there? -98.246.128.140 06:39, 2 February 2020 (UTC)


 * 11 variants. See Cat. --Hanzepic (talk) 07:14, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

References to other media may not be entirely accurate
The references to other media may not be true. For instance, "Bee our Guest" isn't necessarily a reference to the Disney song Be our Guest, as Be our Guest is a phrase anyway; the advancement may simply be referencing that, not a song. The same may also be true of Monster Hunter, but that is less likely. I am also rather sceptical of the supposed reference to Star Trek: The Next Generation. "The Next Generation" can simply mean the next generation; in this case the next generation of dragons. This does not make it a reference to a film that happens to have the same name. Of course, if it has actually been stated that the points I have brought up are incorrect, then please tell me so. That is the reason I mentioned it in a talk page, rather than editing it right off the bat. Slashertor (talk) 10:02, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Not sure why that section even exists, it's purely speculative and has no place on a wiki. -Pepijn (talk) 06:12, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Which potion is featured on the "Local Brewery" advancement?
Hi,

The Local Brewery advancement has a potion on it's icon, but which one is it? The advancement guide says that it's a potion of regeneration, while the advancements page says that it is an uncraftable potion. Which one is it? If someone could verify this, thank you!

In my opinion, I think it's the uncraftable potion because it has more vibrant colors than the potion of regeneration. The icon actually looks more colorful, so I suppose it could be an uncraftable potion?

Regards, Purpur4 (talk) 23:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

It appears to be both, to me. Unless the picture we have for the advancement guide is outdated, both are acceptable. I guess pull up a 1.15.2 version of Minecraft, look at the advancement there, and use your judgement. The Nightmare Tank (talk) 23:59, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Well.. I don't have Minecraft Java Edition, but maybe we could get someone else to check it? Anyways, I still strongly believe that it's the uncraftable potion because the advancement tree file (in the Nether) looks like an uncraftable potion. Purpur4 (talk) 00:32, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Went into Java Minecraft, myself. 1.15.2 has what appears to be the Uncraftable Potion. So it sounds to me like the icon for the advancement we have is currently outdated, and could use a refreshment. The Nightmare Tank (talk) 00:40, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Categories are broken
Hello,

The categories are not displaying at the top of each tab/section. Can someone please figure out what the problem is?

--Purpur4 (talk) 23:46, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Do we really need the 'Miscellaneous references' section?
I mean most everything in this section seems so darn obvious, that it's almost laughable. I really don't think that it's necessary. Anyone else feel the same? 73.40.56.255 16:22, 14 June 2020 (UTC)SquireTurnbolt

Two by Two, trader llamas, and JE 1.16
"A trader llama does not count as a llama, and donkeys and mules count as horses." The tag on this sentence is ambiguous: is it saying only that donkeys and mules will stop counting as horses in 1.16, or is it also saying that trader llamas will start counting as llamas? If the former, this can be fixed simply by swapping the two statements: "Donkeys and mules count as horses, and a trader llama does not count as a llama." 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」☎ Dinoguy1000 12:42, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Sources for advancement names
I chuckled a bit the first time I attained the "Ol' Betsy" advancement, because it may refer to an old Disney movie. In the animated Robin Hood, the character Nutsy (one of the Sherriff's stooges) has named his crossbow Betsy (or Ol' Betsy).

Is there a references page for this kind of thing (possible salutes to other media)? SirDaddicus (talk) 20:10, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Unless we get a source from mojang it references that specifically, it is speculation, and as such should not be on the wiki. Dhranios (talk) (Join the wiki videos project!) 20:49, 21 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Well, that's boring. When game developers put those things in, they WANT them to be noticed. The other big game wiki I post on includes them, but always says "this may be a reference to ...". If that's a rule here, though, bummer. SirDaddicus (talk) 05:26, 23 January 2021 (UTC)