Talk:Plant/Archive 2

Move
In 1.13, coral and sea pickles are added and I think that it should move to "Plants and fauna" to cover information about coral and sea pickles. -- Hayden Bob Mutthew  Talk  06:37, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think a name like "Living Blocks" could be better, since currently the page contains not only plants, but also fungi. 85.76.72.200 05:10, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * "Fauna" would be misleading since technically that would include mobs, and "living blocks" would similarly include shulkers (and just doesn't sound nearly as good as "plants" IMO). If I was going to advocate for a name change (and note that I'm not, just to be clear), it would probably be for something like "sessile", though that suffers the same problem as "living blocks" in that it could include shulkers.
 * The term "plants" has been strictly inaccurate for as long as it's been used on-wiki - mushrooms were added in Classic 0.0.20a, in 2009, and this page was only created in 2011 (it was created as a redirect in late 2010 but wasn't expanded into a separate page until January 2011) - and while there has been the occasional call to rename in the past, by and large there's no indication that this inaccuracy has ever resulted in any actual confusion or problems. 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:09, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I personally am not sure how useful the page even is. As for as I know, "plants" is not an official term for these blocks, they really don't have that much in common, and like pointed out, many of the "plants" are not plants in real life.-- Madminecrafter12 Orange Glazed Terracotta.png to meLight Blue Glazed Terracotta.png 13:28, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That's true, this page probably doesn't provide very much actually useful information for its readers and has a rather misleading title, so I think we could just delete it. 85.76.72.23 06:26, 2 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I also removal for the same reasons listed above Cultist O (talk) 03:52, 4 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Maybe it would be a better idea to turn it into a disambig like how Animal is? That probably makes the mose sense to me.-- Madminecrafter12 Orange Glazed Terracotta.png to meLight Blue Glazed Terracotta.png 15:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's a great idea. Let's do that. 85.76.71.234 17:29, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * For now I've turned it into a disambig page. Any edits improving the page are welcome.-- Madminecrafter12 Orange Glazed Terracotta.png to meLight Blue Glazed Terracotta.png 13:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Hay Bales and Similar (Made-from-Plants Ambiguity)
Hay bales were just added, which I don't necessarily object to, but it points to the need for a clear cutoff, lest we keep adding and removing things based on subjective right-feeling. I think the easiest way to deal with it is to have "plants" (or false-plants) include: I'm open to other criteria, but I feel the line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise we open the floodgates to anything with plant parts used as the primary ingredient. My proposed set of criteria would exclude the following ambiguous examples: As I mentioned, I'm open to other criteria, but consider which of the above they would include and why. I'd also like to open discussion on mossy stone bricks and mossy cobblestone, as they're also borderline even with my proposal, but were added and removed without much discussion.
 * the blocks and structures that actually make up the plant in-world
 * any plant-parts that drop when the plant is harvested or broken
 * any plant-part that is used to "plant" the plant (currently only (arguably) pumpkin and melon seeds, but good for future-proofing)
 * Hay bales (the only one on the page right now)
 * Nether Wart Blocks
 * Golden apples and carrots
 * Popped Chorus Fruit (and all the chorus blocks)
 * Jack-O-Lanterns
 * Other foods with plant ingredients (bread, cookies, pies, soups, cake, potions etc)
 * Sugar
 * Carrot on a Stick
 * Anything made partially or entirely of Wood
 * etc

Cultist O (talk) 07:44, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

New Category? (Defining Plants)
Since "plants" is a really ambiguous term, I can't seem to find a good criteria for it. The closest thing I can find is "something that can naturally grow/spread under the right conditions or something that has been grown/spread under the right condition". Under this definition, however, dead bushes would not be considered plants, and Mooshrooms would. Other criteria include "must be mostly plant matter" which excludes mossy stones and podzol but would similarly exclude grass, which is mostly dirt, but include blocks like hay bales and nether wart blocks. Even the above "Hay bales and similar" section struggles to define plant, as moss stones and mooshrooms and iron golems pass the criteria. I suggest, since there is a "Minecraft plants that aren't plants in real life" section, there should be a "plants in reality that aren't plants in Minecraft" section because I think iron golems, moss stones, and podzol, if not Minecraft plants, deserve at least some sort of acknowledgement on the page for completionist purposes.


 * I'm not sure why you made a new section rather than continuing the above, but that's fine. I think a plant is anything that is a plant in real life, and any fictitious object that spreads or grows like those plants do (or anything that mojang/minecraft explicitly says is a plant). False-Plants are any thing that grows or spreads like minecraft plants, but represents something that is a non-plant in reality, particularly if it could resonably be confused with a plant. I don't understand why mooshrooms are ambiguous at all under any proposed definition, they do not act, grow or spread in any way like any minecraft plant, nor are they representative of something that is a plant in reality. Similarly, I don't understand why golems or podzol represent a mention, as neither are remotely plant like in either sense.


 * By my logic:


 * * A bush is a plant in real life, a dead bush is just a kind of bush, so it's a plant
 * * The important thing about grass blocks are that they are grass, not that they are a kind of dirt, (not to mention name) so plant
 * * chorus and nether wart don't exist in real life, but grow similarly to plants (cactus/sugar cane or crops respectively) and are named like plants, so plants
 * * Sea pickles grow/spread in a plant like way (sort of like flowers), but represent a real-life animal so false-plant
 * * mossy stone are sort-of ambiguous, but I think they're more kinds of stone than they are plants, so I'm not sure I'd include them. I would be fine with including them though.
 * * golems, podzol and mooshrooms aren't plants in real life, and they do not act like plants in minecraft, so not-plants. I don't agree that they pass my definition from the section above.
 * * (Also see the topic above for my thoughts on things-made-from-plants, like netherwart blocks and hay bales)


 * Cultist O (talk) 08:19, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Podzol isn't a plant in minecraft nor in real life, but it does have some real-life plants growing on it. It definitely shouldn't make any plant category but I think it deserves a mention in a different section.
 * If mushrooms are plants and they are indeed growing on mooshrooms, then mooshrooms should be considered plants, especially considering the mushrooms can be grown and reproduce by feeding them wheat. If the argument is that they are really just mushrooms growing on cows, then I think it warrants a mention in a separate section.
 * Iron golems have vines draped over them, and while they can't be sheared or reproduce, vines do exist as a growable item in-game. The vines on golems seem to be perfectly well alive, unlike mossy stones which can be graft-on vines. It is obvious that the golems themselves are not plants. Hence it deserves only a mention in a "non-plant" section.
 * Mossy cobblestones seem to be alive, unless all that stuff in the dungeons was hand-crafted, though the total absence of sunlight is suspicious... In any case, moss IS a plant in real life. So, it should be mentioned in a "not plant" section.
 * Can you think of a reason we shouldn't add a "not plants in minecraft/other" section? I can't, because "plant" is not defined by mojang –Preceding unsigned comment was added by Sitbear (talk • contribs) at 7:17, 01 October 2018 (UTC). Please sign your posts with


 * *I* would be comfortable with mossy stuff, because the moss is part of how the block is defined, and as you say moss is a plant IRL. (Though I would understand why others might not be comfortable with their inclusion, and would be comfortable with their exclusion)
 * Mushrooms are *not* plants however. Mushrooms are mentioned on the page, because they act like plants, and common misconceptions mean they are likely to be confused with plants. Mooshrooms however do not act like plants, and are not likely to be confused with plants by the average user, so do not fit the same way. Iron golems just happen to have a plant in their default texture, but in now way act like plants, and that part of the texture is in no way integral to the mob's identity.
 * I don't know what you mean by podzol "does have some real-life plants growing on it"
 * See again my comment about things that have plant material as a component, as I feel your suggestion would have us include so many things (like everything with wood) that the page would become unmanageable.
 * Keep in mind, this is now a disambiguation page, it is meant to direct users to whatever page(s) they were likely looking for, not give exhaustive information about plants in minecraft.
 * Cultist O (talk) 01:03, 3 October 2018 (UTC)