Talk:Renewable resource

Renewable but requires nonrenewable items in fully renewable products all the way around?
I've noticed that the gold tools have been in the wood section for quite some time, but I'm not here to ask for them to be removed. I'm sharing my opinion on renewable products. As I read it, renewable but requires nonrenewable does specifically state that it needs a nonrenewable resource to be able to get them, but however they ARE renewable and once you have that one thing they become fully renewable. I don't necessarily see the point of isolating the nether items and other items in that section from the above table's renewable products, because once you have that one thing that makes it renewable, its renewable. And in order to make those things completely nonrenewable, it would take a LOT of time to remove all access to it legitly, plus a little bit of smartass-ism mixed with stupidity. Another reason I think this, it doesn't show the full range of items that can be renewably crafted or smelted. People always readd gold tools and other things to fully renewable products in the top section, and I think that's because they think it's missing information. Not all the people that come here know about that, so I think it would be best to add gold tools, eye of ender, magma cream, and other stuff just for the sake of ALL people. It would save them from taking the time to add an edit and be undone, save us from undoing all these edits, and keep these annoying back and forth revisions from happening. Funky3000 19:51, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, that section is quite useless. one could argue that wheat belongs in that section, because it requires dirt, or cactus because it requires sand. it's kinda pointless√Onion&#61;Shallot 08:53, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Dirt and sand aren't expended. Portals require resources to be expended one way or another in their creation. I'm just going with what has been agreed on. Personally I think this whole page is useless as it only really applies to modded maps like skyblock --Moxxy 15:38, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I just thought of something. Can't you find obsidian in npc villages? That way, making a portal wouldn't consume lava. It could be lit by placing wood on one side, then lava on the other. After the portal is lit, the lava could be retrieved. Then the portal is made without consuming nonrenewable resources, and everything in the nether could be moved back to the fully renewable section. Please tell me if there are errors in my logic. Bluemagic123 02:41, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Experience orbs?
Why are experience orbs on this page? They are separate entities than items. And even if they do belong on this page, surely they don't require nonrenewable resources to be obtained. Bluemagic123 02:29, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * While they are not items, this page is not about renewable items. It is about renewable resources. Orbs are resources. They are also in that section because you need an enchantment table to USE them, or else they are useless. Funky3000 13:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Using that logic, music discs should be moved to the same section because you need a diamond to make a jukebox to use them. This page is about what you can obtain. Bluemagic123 23:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Portals don't NEED any non-renewable resources except for lava
Should all the mentions of portals requiring flint & steel and diamonds be removed to the notes section, perhaps, or listed as not strictly necessary? After all, you can mold and light a portal without using either... lava, along with any flammable block (there are many renewable examples: wood, wool, etc.), can be used to create the fire to light the portal, bypassing the need to use flint from gravel. Marksmanship 20:52, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If you can find a lava lake 5 deep, you don't even need a bucket, making it renewable even since before zombies dropped iron! JamesTheAwesomeDude 02:30, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

This page needs some serious organization
This page has some serious flaws, regarding the difference between "fully renewable" and "requires nonrenewable." First of all, doesn't cobblestone and everything plant-related REQUIRE nonrenewable resources? I mean, they need lava, dirt, or sand. It doesn't matter whether they're consumed or not; they REQUIRE nonrenewable resources. Now, let's say we really are going be whether the resources is consumed or not. First of all, the title of "requires nonrenewable" is wrong. Because clearly, cobblestone and plants REQUIRE nonrenewable resources. So the title of that section should be changed to something along the lines of "requires consumption of nonrenewable." And even then, nether mob drops shouldn't be in that section; nothing needs to be consumed to make a portal. No lava needs to be consumed to make obsidian; you can find obsidian in npc villages. Also, to light the portal, place lava on one side of the portal, and wood on the other side. Eventually, the portal will light, without anything except wood being consumed. So either way, this page needs major edits. Bluemagic123 05:26, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree on the title change. And your new way of lighting a nether portal is interesting, if it can be confirmed then we will change all nether drops to fully renewable--Yurisho 06:53, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I say we leave it the same title, but we just make one section (Besides the "Planned" section, that's entirely separate) and put everything we can continue to collect forever and ever with no stop or loss. That way we get a full visualization in each material of what can be renewably crafted (such as gold swords, by just looking at the wood we don't know gold tools are renewable, but when we look at gold we can see that gold tools are renewable). Also by that, we don't have any argument on what goes where. I remember cobblestone and plants being moved to "renewable but require nonrenewable" because they need dirt, but if you are too stupid to not realize that dirt and sand and lava sources that continue to make flowing lava are infinite resources then you really should be here in the first place. If we combine it to one section, then everything is in one place and we don't need to have all these useless arguments of what goes where. Funky3000 12:55, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I know for a fact that many people use this method of lighting a portal in skyblock, where it is impossible to get flint. I think it has something to do with the fire having to spread through the frame to get to the wood. And I agree, it would be much more convenient if everything is in the same section. Bluemagic123 02:44, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Technically, Nether portals are activated when a fire block is created inside the portal frame; it doesn't matter what the source of the fire is. -- Orthotope 04:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So then, it's pretty much confirmed that no nonrenewable resources need to be consumed in order to make a nether portal. Because you could make it so that fire from lava spreads onto the side of a wood block that makes it so that the fire is inside the portal. So, we could either move the nether items to the fully renewable section, or merge the two sections like Funky suggested. Bluemagic123 01:52, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget that "not consumed" doesn't mean "not necessary." You still need the Obsidian, and it's still not renewable, it's merely that we've chosen to consider it the same way we consider growing cactus in sand or crops and trees in dirt. Marksmanship 02:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If crops and trees aren't renewable, then that leaves almost nothing. (Mob drops and the products thereof that don't need a crafting table) JamesTheAwesomeDude 02:25, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Making Obsidian destroys lava. Dirt doesn't need to be made. --Moxxy 05:35, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * How does that contribute anything to the discussion? They're both nonrenewable. (dirt and obsidian) I don't understand what you're trying to say; perhaps if you rephrased it, that might help. You probably have a valid point, but I can't figure out what it is. JamesTheAwesomeDude 16:03, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You do not need to consume lava to get obsidian. Just look for npc villages. Some of them have obsidian in their chests. Bluemagic123 05:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Bluemagic's got it. Basically you can use the blacksmiths' Obsidian to make a portal. At the end of the day you can't get it back without using diamonds, but this bypasses consuming lava and the Obsidian itself isn't actually consumed either. Admittedly this is slightly different than sand or dirt, because you can get those back without using non-renewable diamonds.


 * Of course, this leads to the question of whether or not you can still consider it "not consumed" when there's no way to get it back the way it was (item form in a chest) without using a non-renewable resource. Dirt and sand can be put back exactly as they were (on/in the ground) without using a non-renewable resource; Obsidian can't. So I suppose we're still stuck with a dilemma here. Marksmanship 18:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * For organizational purposes, we should just consider it not consumed. After all, a main goal of this discussion is to clean up the page, not give each item with special rules its own entire section. (remember the section that we once had with nothing but obsidian in it?) If an item has an unusual property, harvesting condition, etc., we should put it in the category that best matches it, then add a note. A real world example would be the Platypus: it lays eggs, yet nurses its young. Did we then create an entire new section for one single species? No, we put it in the best match (mammals,) and made it well known that they are an exception. JamesTheAwesomeDude 21:04, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Villager trading
I noticed that jeb is giving some raw chicken for some currency. This means that even renewable items can be given to get currency, and then to possibly buy currently nonrenewble items? If this is the case, I think a section for villager trading would be a good idea, in case things get too cluttered. Heres a few of my speculations that probably make sense. Like a LOT of sense.

Seeing as how much this could affect, I think a new section would be the best to do. With selling, fully renewable things are: currencies (likely rubies seeing as the gem style and the "ore" in the background), obsidian, diamond, gold, and much more. Your opinions? Funky3000 00:01, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Jeb said "This is how I perform experiments on Testificates" and they are separated in chambers and each has a profession now in the snapshots.
 * By separation, logically each villager trades different things
 * Knowing that, blacksmiths may sell what is found in their chests, including obsidian and diamonds.
 * Seeing that Jeb put a chicken into a slot, and an arrow points of a currency in a slot, this shows you can get currency from them too.
 * Seeing as he's giving chicken, you can give renewable items too.
 * Using these renewable items, currency is renewable too.
 * Since currency is renewable, this means buying obsidian and diamonds are renewable.
 * Gold would be FULLY renewable too, so the ingots/nuggets can have the note taken off
 * Just wait for the update. --Moxxy 01:07, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like SOMEONE doesn't like preparation and opinions. :P Tbh I'd rather be prepared then have mass conversation and disagreeal when SOMETHING should be done at the release. I, as a completionist, want to have things done as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for hours or days waiting for a conversation of something so little to be agreed on. With the 3 days we have until Thursday, we can accomplish a lot in terms of actually being prepared. So, why not help the cause instead of being so blunt? Funky3000 01:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I've created the trading article seeing that the preview is released. Feel free to add content to it, but I suggest discussing them first in the Talk page there, and waiting until more info is released. - Asterick6 (talk) 05:09, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I guess the big question is whether or not Jeb will limit the availability of rare stuff like Diamonds for trading. If you can trade an indefinite amount of Chicken for cash, and can buy an indefinite amount of Diamonds if you have enough cash, then Diamonds would be renewable... but Jeb might implement something to limit how many Diamonds we can buy or how much poultry a villager will pay for before going broke or realizing it doesn't need five stacks of food. Marksmanship 17:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Or there will be a sort of limit of how much you can trade with a villager during an amount of time. Sanoth 17:59 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that it's important that the stuff you can get by trading have its own section, things that you can renew without trading should remain in its current section, probably with a star/indicator directing to a note that says "these resources can also be renewed via trading." or whatever. Cultist O 21:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Correct me if I'm wrong, (which I probably am, ;) but don't Testificates make offers for all items? If so, then all items would be renewable via trading, therefore making this section useless. If, on the other hand, they only trade some items (with at least one being nonrenewable,) then we should see whether there are enough non-renewable items to justify creating an entirely new section. (e.g., if diamonds turn out to be the only nonrenewable that they offer, then add diamonds to the renewable section w/ a note. If they open up a whole slew of nonrenewables, however, then adding a new section might be wise.) JamesTheAwesomeDude 21:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Obsidian needs to be added to the "planned renewable" section
Seeing that diamond tools are to be made renewable, now obsidian is too. Mattpoppybros 21:24, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This is also true of potions, ice & mushroom blocks, as experience and glass are also to be renewable via trading
 * Mushroom blocks, no. You still need diamonds for the enchantment table. But ice, yes. You can't silk touch it yet, its in the wrong section. Obsidian too, and potions. Obsidian will be actually renewable when the update comes out. Funky3000 23:22, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Right, forgot the enchanting table... Cultist O 07:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Is ice renewable?
If silk touch will still be non-renewable, how is ice planned renewable? Renewable water freezing isn't new, shouldn't it count? You can even get it where you want it in a renewable way, (pistons or freezing in place in the correct biome.) Cultist O 07:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * While ice spread isn't new, the actual collection of the item is only able to be done with silk touch as of 1.3.Funky3000 10:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * In the discussion regarding experience orbs however it was decided that resource did not mean something that went into your inventory, or even that you could use for anything classically useful. It is possible to put as much ice as you want wherever you want it in a completely renewable way, this to me means it is renewable. (If this is not the case then water is also non-renewable, and should be changed to water bucket.) It could be true however that pistons (redstone) being planed renewable currently puts ice in the same boat as plants and whatnot. (For reasonable production/use it requires but does not consume a single non-renewable.) Cultist O 11:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This page is about things you can collect renewably. You can collect items, blocks, and experience orbs. While XP isn't collectable to the inventory, they ARE collectible. Using the world to do things does not make it renewable. While we can push a whole bunch of ice over to make more ice and push it around, it is not currenty COLLECTABLE. A resource is always collectable. Another good example is snow coverings and silverfish blocks. They are always generated around the world. Snow golems and weather can make snow coverings on the ground, but those can't be collected with silk touch, and therefore why we do not have them as a renewable resource. Same with silverfish blocks. Having a cobblestone or stone generator machine near a silverfish spawner can make infinite silverfish blocks, however you cannot collect them, therefore why we do not have them on this page. Funky3000 12:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's an unfortunate interpretation, but is probably the right move being that as you point out it keeps tech blocks off the page, as well as most entities. I will change water to water bucket then (as the water you can make in the world does not count.) Cultist O 09:15, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * if you're going to get into technicalities, then cocoa beans should be the strange cocoa bean model skin, as cocoa beans cannot be placed into the real world as-is.
 * Screw the technicalities. they'll only complicate everything. lets try to be flexable, and use our heads. rather than use dead-set logic. honestly. :T --Kizzycocoa 13:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Obsidian will be fully-renewable, it seems
Xeoxer 14:26, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * To harvest it you need diamond pickaxe, which is fully renewable from villagers
 * Water is needed, it's fully renewable
 * By exploiting redstone wire to obsidian bug (redstone also becomes fully renewable from villagers) you can convert it to obsidian with flowing lava (flowing lava is fully renewable also, it can be made infinite times from source lava block)
 * It can be noted that obsidian is fully-renewable, but requires single acquiring of lava source, which is unrenewable.


 * You only need one lava source for an indefinite amount of Obsidian, though, so it's equivalent to using dirt to grow crops, trees and reeds or sand to grow cactus.


 * You can also produce Obsidian without lava by making and destroying portals, of course... I think that's described in the Obsidian article.


 * At last! My full chests of zombie flesh are useful for something! Marksmanship 20:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget massively oversized automatic wheat farms. :P And a great deal on cooked meats! <3 Funky3000 20:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Redstone isn't fully renewable though. Neither is lava. Pouring Lava on top of still water gives smooth stone. Otherwise Obsidian would be fully renewable. The nether portal deal isn't exactly efficient, and in multiplayer, it can cause linkage issues with other players' Obsidian portals, thus may not always be a viable renewable resource. As for villagers selling redstone, you shouldn't count redstone as renewable, as villagers can stop selling it (forcing you to kill them hoping a new villager procreates a redstone selling villager.) Iyeru 21:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * No need to kill villagers; removed trades can be added again through the normal procedure. -- Orthotope 00:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You mean through re-trading over and over hoping to get redstone again? Or do you mean procreating? If it's the latter, procreating, if you remember, doesn't happen if there's enough villagers already. Iyeru 05:32, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * By trading; villagers add new offers at random, and can add one that was previously removed. It's not as efficient as it used to be, but the process is renewable. -- Orthotope 05:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Sand renewable with piston glitch
This video shows how to exploit a piston bug that gives access to unlimited amounts of sand (and gravel, probably). --GALAKTOSTalk – Win8βx64, Java7x64, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 10:19, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Added to the “Renewable, but require nonrenewable resources” section. —Fenhl 22:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

My complex edit
I changed the the lines describing the contents of the planed section to better describe their contents, the table description for planned renewable said the table only had items currently in game, which excludes emerald and whatnot. The "other planned items" row said that it had all planed items that would be renewable, made from existing, this implied that it should have included the stuff like the ender chest, made from stuff that will be renewable, now it does not imply this. Finally I mentioned the alternative methods of farming obsidian through use of a link Cultist O 15:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Silk touch enchantment
It states under the heading for huge mushrooms that they are obtainable fully renewable as trading with a priest gives a chance for encanted tools from levels 5-19 which silk touch can be obtained at level 19. There for wouldn't it mean that ice and other block be classed as fully renewable now 60.225.60.254 11:31, 2 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If that is true, then they will both be completely renewable, but are not. There is just a discrepancy in the method column between whether to list the current almost renewable way, or the coming completely renewable way. Cultist O 12:54, 2 July 2012 (UTC)


 * But then shouldn't we have a consistent format across the board instead of having some items that are listed as per the coming renewable way and some as the current almost renewable way. This way it would not confuse many people if we just either have the current updates or the snapshots 60.225.60.254 22:55, 2 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, question is only which way... The problem is that the section is essentially an upcoming section which implies they should be listed as they will be. The silk touch ones however are partially renewable now, so it makes sense to list them that way. I think that ideally both should be mentioned, but theoretically it shouldn't be too long before the update in question comes out, making all this mostly irrelevant. Cultist O 01:29, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Nether items note can be removed in 1.3
You can buy eye of ender from priests to activate an end portal, then going through said end portal generates an obsidian platform which you can mine with a diamond pick bought from a blacksmith. The obsidian generates again if you go through again making this use only fully renewable resources. The end portal can never be removed by tools or explosions meaning that access to the end can never be stopped unless you turn structures off. You can then use this fully renewable obsidian to build a nether portal without using nonrenewable resources such as lava or diamonds, therefore removing the need for the nether portal tag. Funky3000 01:24, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Some "renewable" items are barely so....
Being a rare drop, and arguably trading with villagers, shouldn't put stuff in the same category as wood and meat. Notably, Zombie Pigmen dropping gold a nugget at a time (even with occasional ingots) isn't going to help you with much beyond Golden Apples, eventually. Even with regular Zombies, you pretty much need a mob farm to get a reliable supply of iron shovels and such. As for villagers, not only do they need to be found (and prevented from falling into caves and the like), but you can't rely on getting any given trade offer. Being "renewable" shouldn't include "you can get one of these occasionally, if you're lucky and/or determined".

Accordingly, I propose two new categories: "Rare Drops", and "Purchasable items", so as to separate out such items without distracting from the truly infinite resources. --Mental Mouse 16:28, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No matter the case, they are still fully renewable. We don't need useless sections for those few specifics. This page is meant to be basic and to the point, we don't need to split everything up. Funky3000 18:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's hardly "useless" to differentiate between stuff that's unlimited in ordinary play, versus stuff that's technically unlimited if you devote your game to farming it. And that is "to the point".  Claiming that gold tools are renewable because they're occasionally dropped by a Nether mob, or that diamond tools are renewable because you might find a village with someone offering them in trade... that's useless, and obscures the realities of normal play.  More to the point, it makes the distinction nearly meaningless....  --Mental Mouse 16:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This discussion invariably tracks right back around to: What was the original purpose of this page?
 * My answer to this question is: "You know that point where you've explored all the cave systems around your house, for a good 20 minutes in all directions, and you're starting to run low on resources for whatever reason? What could you *actually* just get more of no matter what? That is what this page is for. Now, if people don't agree, then indeed, it can stay as-is. However, by that logic, Gold Nuggets are probably not renewable. Unless you build a mob farm in the nether, but that's for another page. Thus, the page could be split in two (or we could remove the second half I'm about to propose) and have a "Simply Renewable" subsection, or two sections, "Simply Renewable" and "Complexly renewable". The metric would be, IMO, can you actually get this resource in *useful* quantities in *reasonable* time. E.g: 1 stack in <1 hr. Darkid 18:44, 10 August 2012 (UTC)