Minecraft Wiki talk:Projects/Welcome

Starting Off
Anyone want to require ground rules or the order for discussion of topics, or is Free-For-All good enough? -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 01:05, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Brought Over from Community
(title snip)

The heading sums it up well enough.

I had considered just placing the concept on the Project page, and sketching out a brief framework on its attached sub-pages, but I am not too sure that there's an actual need.

Are there sufficient new users such that a welcome/newbie-patrol project is needed, or are the number of edits of sufficient number and quality that it is obvious that new members are picking up on the rules and culture of this wiki? Is there sufficient interest from existing members to participate in it such that establishing it is worthwhile (and not overtaxing)? -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 10:16, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Depends whether you want to go that way with welcoming users. I have a colleague who works for the Wikimedia Foundation and they did a study and found big annoying copypasted welcome templates were more likely to scare off users than help them assimilate into the wiki.
 * However, I'm not against the idea of giving newbies a directory to look up once they've made an account. My idea is to make a template at MediaWiki:Welcomecreation that outlines the welcomenewbie things we need to show them. That page is the first thing all new users see when making a new account. I think that's a must, whether we want to use that template is some sort of talk page welcome system is a separate issue IMO.  A NNOYING  12:10, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Doesn't sound like a bad idea; we have plenty of new users each day (10 to 20 or so?) and its never a bad thing to help newbies on their way, is it? So how would it look like? A simple FAQ, some examples, stuff like that?--Quatroking -  MCWiki Administrator  15:12, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I thought that it'd be better to poll newbie-need and participatory-desire first before moving onto the nitty-gritty of development and operations. I think any discussion of such would be best served on the Project page.  If I see another "yes, good idea/we need this" posted here, I'll post up the Project page and those interested can brainstorm therein. -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 22:59, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I would like to echo Aclectasis thoughts that creating big welcome templates is generally a fail situation as they tend to come off as overly official, and intimidating. I would recommend something more in the line of some dedicated wikiers who are willing to commit to being available to assist new editors upon request, as well as to just be more aware of new edits via the Recent Changes log, and willing to jump in and provide guidance to people who are obviously having difficulties. I do agree it is worth talking about, so I say create the project page and let's move the discussion there. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  23:28, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * A project for this might be a little too much for a simple job. I've been doing this to some degree (a good example here) but I've been kinda putting less effort into it because it doesn't seem to have much effect. I think there should be a project to better beef up the help pages and formulate better guidelines for the wiki and then create article creation wizards/checklists (using the inputbox extension) to make things easier for them and for us by decreasing the amount of junk new pages we get.


 * On a semi-related note, welcome templates for talk pages should be an absolute no-no. They are horribly impersonal and just get ignored. --Gnu32 23:44, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * There's no reason there can't be both project (Help pages and Wiki Helpers). Beefing up help pages don't do any good if people can't find them, don't have basic wiki coding skills, etc.. The Helpers could make those impersonal Help pages make sense, as well as point to them. I'm not so into wizards and checklists..... -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  23:52, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I think there's enough discussion here warranting the creation of the project and a talk page to discuss it all therein. The Project page is up (Welcome), and I'll be copy-pasting this to the talk page there for reference reasons. -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 01:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Help pages
I will happily help with a majority of the help section, from the simple things to creating of pages, uploading, templates, signatures etc. to more things tailored to this wiki specifically. Can include a more detailed page with guidelines on things that constitute vandalism and things that are not allowed on this wiki and why?  A NNOYING  11:28, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Sound perfect Aclectasis (or should I just call you "Annoying"?) :D -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  14:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, do we have a informal guideline within the wiki on what is vandalism, so as to create a formal one from it? As for help pages, what would we be looking at?  I would like to see something sweet and simple, preferably with lots of pictures (since I have found at least one user who claims dyslexia causes him reading comprehension troubles; I think it's a fair request and proper picture use does improve reading IMO). -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 19:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You can feel free to copy/paste the basic editing help pages directly from Metawiki, since that's what they are designed for. They can be specialized from there, but I would suggest pages on basic wikicode, images, tables, and templates. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  02:23, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, those are the basics I think should be covered. As for the dyslexic guy, I never got to tell him this but he's probably better off watching the tutorials on youtube?  A NNOYING  07:02, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Helpers
Since Wynthyst has so nicely provided us with ready-made names, and we have Aclectasis to thank for starting up the Help Page section, I'll kick off the Wiki Helpers section.

So, what exactly should we be doing as helpers? There's starting list below. Add any comments or debate underneath the appropriate entry, so that things stay somewhat organized, please. To start the ball rolling, here are a few suggested roles for the wiki helpers (good and bad ones, for the sake of discussion) (Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 19:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)):


 * Greeting new users on their talk page
 * Providing new users with a short template or page that outlines the wiki's goals and rules
 * Providing them with editing help
 * Police new users' submissions for grammar/editing errors
 * Serve as active vandalism repliers


 * Create a sign up page for users wishing to become "wiki helpers". Create a userbox or something that people can place on their userpages to indicate they are part of the Helper program. No to welcome templates. They don't work and tend to just intimidate people. Simply leave a personalized message on user talk pages if it seems they are having difficulties, pointing them to the help pages, and offering assistance. If they are breaking the rules, point them at the rules page and explain how they are breaking them. This is a way to bring them into the community by engaging them. Do not push if they are resistant to assistance, there are a lot of people who wish to "figure it out for themselves". Suggest they do so in their userspace, rather than creating problems in mainspace, offer assistance if they change their minds, and walk away.... -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]]  talk  02:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * For a wiki helpers page, on UDWiki we mimicked something like Wikipedia's project at project welcome, turned out well. Just make sure there are no impersonal annoying templates.  A NNOYING  13:07, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, as a fellow UDer, I've had mixed feelings about the UD Welcome page for some time, mostly on the "OMG, giant page of text!" basis.  It's a good page, though, but I found it (and still do) somewhat intimidating.  If we want to recruit Welcome crew, then I think we would want to make it as easy as possible to become a wikihelper.  We don't want the group to ever come across as a cliche, however, or a group out for power politics, so I think that making it clear that a wikihelper is there to help others for the reward of knowing they helped another would be worthwhile.  I agree with the template restrictions, although IMO a well crafted and small template would be a help if not spammed by helpstaff on everything.  Maybe a how-to guide for new helpstaffers as well?  Something encapsulating several of Wynthyst's suggestions on how to greet&treat new users so as to not come across as pushy or insulting.  I do think it would have to include something on how to deescalate verbal fights, though, if it were to be useful. -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 09:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * What UD welcome page do you mean? The Welcome template? Or the help pages? Because I agree the welcome template is too big but we've sort of discussed not using them in that size if at all here.  A NNOYING  10:44, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant the main project page, but the welcome template is a little intimidating in its current "wall of yellow". The help pages at UD are nice, however. -Wulfenbach (not on fire for once) 01:50, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Could someone make a autogreet bot, that would link to this page?
 * No autogreet bots. The idea of this is to provide a personal welcome and offer of assistance, not nail every new user with a "form letter". -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  21:34, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

More Welcoming Rules, better Deletion Policy
My $0.02, this wiki needs a set of rules that are much more welcoming. Also, a deletion policy that leaves a page around for a couple of days before being completely retired would go a long way to help make new users welcome. Perhaps a page list somewhere of commonly deleted pages (Totemquest, Chair, Herobrine, MCRandomFork) along with rational would be a good idea, so that new users can see why their hard work went down the bit-bucket. –The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jonnay (Talk 05:24, 9 March 2011. Please sign your posts with !
 * Policies (such as deletion) can be proposed for discussion by anyone. feel free to create a draft, Minecraft Wiki:(Policy name/draft) . Also changes to the rules can be proposed on the rules talk page. Use the Request for comment section of the Community portal to gain the community's attention to new discussions. I'd like to see any rules/policies to be as user friendly as possible. I've also urged the admins who do the deletions to leave comments on the page creator's talk pages explaining the deletions and pointing them to the rules page. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  11:48, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ehhhhh. Deletion, of all of the admin actions, would probably be best with a page related to community voting. I could help create some with some very fairly minded guidelines but, not only do I think it's not really part of this project but the ops probably won't back it up, making it useless.  A NNOYING  13:19, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No voting. Discussion and consensus. But discussion about a deletion policy belongs on it's own page, not as part of this project. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  13:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Another part of the project
Is posting a welcome message on users talk pages when they join to the gist of this project? I've been posting a getting started message on new user's pages from the recent changes list, telling them some useful things on the wiki.

"Welcome to the wiki! To get started, head on over to the rules page, and then get to editing! MoonBeans 17:38, 13 March 2011 (UTC)